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Do you still think GalCiv 1 is fun even with GalCiv II out?
758 votes
1- Yes
2- No


Canadian Star Federation Empire Thread
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#950  by Citizen NewfyScotian - 3/13/2004 10:09:35 AM

OK. So what happens on Maso then?


Well, I get over run. My strategy works great for all but MASO. I fall behind tech so fast everywhere I can't sell much and I find that I can't make friends with anyone except the minors.

I suck so bad at it that I just don't like even trying MASO anymor. If I won every once in awhile I would keep at it.

I have never seen any strategies that relate to tiny / small.

When playing tiny / small crippling I have tried several different strategies. Planet rush, flipping, all out war with everyone, trade war and crippling them by selling tech and keeping them broke. Most of these work reasonably well some better some worse.
What I really like for tiny / MASO would be a small walkthru.

                          
#951  by Citizen Paguma - 3/13/2004 10:41:01 AM

What I really like for tiny / MASO would be a small walkthru.


I suppose I could try to do that, although small ones are not exactly my specialty. Here, I'll give it a try, be back in a couple hours...



                        
#952  by Citizen damoose - 3/13/2004 11:16:39 AM

OK... First things first. One thing you need to remember or learn maybe is that you can't tech whore for money on maso. The AI will not buy tech for money. None of the starting AI players will, including minors. The minors that show up later in the game will buy tech for cash however. If you don't make it to DiploTrans. Then buy it or trade for it from who ever built it.

Next read everything thing in this thread: http://www.galciv.com/forum.asp?BID=GS&id=97352. Link Pay particular attention to post #8 by the Iron Paw himself. I believe that this will be a close to a walkthrough as there is. What you are looking at is what he does in what order when. I used this exact post to move from crip to maso.

Finally I think I'd suggest playing without trading tech for cash at your current difficulty. When you can win without the cash then try maso.

Don't worry about falling behind in tech and you will probably not get the early trade goods or wonders either. The key is to keep your own planets from flipping and keep the AI off your back. So max out your influence by trading for tech and building SBs if you need them. Bribe the AI, make sure it's over time; smaller amounts over 20,30,40 months work much better than bigger gifts every 2 or three months. Make sure you watch relationships and bribe early and often.

Oh you need to start your first tech push by 18 months in or you'll find it tough to get up the tech curve. The game I'm currently in... I'm at par with the AI tech wise in Apr 2183. While I missed Diplo I did get Aphro. and Frictionless.
[Message Edited]

                      
#953  by Citizen Paguma - 3/13/2004 11:44:22 AM

I tried a couple small games at Masochistic, and it's way too hard. You don't have any room for errors, or to be slow. My advice is to play medium (or reduce the number of AIs), it's much more reasonable.

                        
#954  by Citizen Paguma - 3/13/2004 2:38:09 PM

Okay, I really hate the way constructors are working now... What a mess. If this isn't fixed in the inevitable patches to come, I can easily see myself losing interest completely.

Just to prove I'm just sore and can't win anymore. I won my first game on Masochistic even after wasting about 300+ constructors trying to figure them out.



                        
#955  by Veteran Grand_Admiral_Thrawn - 3/13/2004 3:24:15 PM

My strategy works well on Maso, but I almost never get wonders before like 6-7 years in. Too much base social building.

                      
#956  by Citizen damoose - 3/13/2004 4:01:46 PM

I won my first game on Masochistic even after wasting about 300+ constructors trying to figure them out


Ummm... Boss a little more detail please? I just in the middle, well begining of the J beta ap game.

                      
#957  by Citizen damoose - 3/13/2004 4:03:18 PM

My strategy works well on Maso


And... Or are you just being... well you know.

                      
#958  by Diplomat Technician - 3/13/2004 4:27:10 PM

I won my first game on Masochistic even after wasting about 300+ constructors trying to figure them out


How did they change ?

                          
#959  by Citizen Paguma - 3/13/2004 6:47:50 PM

How did they change ?


Well it's filled with bugs right now. I kept getting messages saying the UP had passed a resolution limiting the upgrades to 0 modules. There were no resolutions and certainly none at 0!

Then, this whole logistics thing is just getting really annoying. I have to pay to build the constructors, pay to build the starbase, and then pay for each upgrade. It makes building things very annoying because I have to answer a prompt each time a constructor docs. I tend to build starbases quickly, or at least I used to. So I'd be brining in 10+ constructors at a time, well now I have to confirm each one's upgrade as well.

Not to mention the whole concept of Logistics is completely screwed up. If it is difficult to manage the large numbers of starbases it should have a higher upkeep rather than a higher cost. That just doesn't make any sense. The materials magically reappear instantly after I disband another starbase too.

Not to mention the fact cultural attacks seem to be pretty much impossible now. Certainly this has been something that has been greatly abused and needed addressing. Elminating a path of the game is not how I would have addressed it. A very simple solution could have gone a long way. If the AI simply could recognize a cultural attack, so they could deal with it. i.e. if their sectors are culturally dominated by someone else, and they have starbases nearby, then do something about it!

Anyway, the whole experience was extremely unpleasant to me, as it forced me to play the game in a way I didn't want to. That's a dangerous thing to do, if you force someone to play the game other than how they would like, or how you think it should be played, then they're not likely to play for long.

I think cultural battles should and have to be part of the game. Right now, I don't know how they can be. I had a sector surrounded by 7 party palaces in one sectors, and 5 more in another, and couldn't even get the sector to turn blue. Heck it often took 4 or 5 party palaces just to get a reasonable influence in a new sector. That's basically just completely destroying the cultural attack as a viable attack. That's annoying.


                        
#960  by Diplomat Technician - 3/13/2004 6:57:34 PM

Well it's filled with bugs right now. I kept getting messages saying the UP had passed a resolution limiting the upgrades to 0 modules. There were no resolutions and certainly none at 0!


The bug I am sure they kill .

Then, this whole logistics thing is just getting really annoying. I have to pay to build the constructors, pay to build the starbase, and then pay for each upgrade. It makes building things very annoying because I have to answer a prompt each time a constructor docs. I tend to build starbases quickly, or at least I used to. So I'd be brining in 10+ constructors at a time, well now I have to confirm each one's upgrade as well. Not to mention the whole concept of Logistics is completely screwed up. If it is difficult to manage the large numbers of starbases it should have a higher upkeep rather than a higher cost. That just doesn't make any sense. The materials magically reappear instantly after I disband another starbase too.


I agree.

Not to mention the fact cultural attacks seem to be pretty much impossible now.


It would hit your style of play hard.
Hopefully Stardock backs off.


Already I have read threads where users are asking about going back to older versions of GC.

I hope things work out,
as the founder of the CSF and a active player losing you would be bad

                          
#961  by Citizen damoose - 3/13/2004 7:02:41 PM

as the founder of the CSF and a active player losing you would be bad


Indeed!

                      
#962  by Diplomat Technician - 3/13/2004 7:03:25 PM

Tiny Maso,

Scary...

The reasons I play Gigantic.

On the Maso Level Aliens see Monkey boy as,

1) Future Slaves
2) A Place where they can demand systems, and cash
3) See your sectors as great places to build class 28
colonies which flips all your systems in a 3 sector range.
4) See your sectors a good place to build Starbases


                          
#963  by Citizen Exar Kuun - 3/13/2004 7:06:44 PM

Already I have read threads where users are asking about going back to older versions of GC.


I'm still playing 1.13 coz when I tried playing 1.20 the AI seemed alot weaker



                      
#964  by Veteran kasualkid - 3/13/2004 7:12:13 PM

Already I have read threads where users are asking about going back to older versions of GC.


This is why it is really important to "archive" you versions before you upgrade. I have old versions back to 1.09 I think.

kasualkid



                       Posted via Stardock Central
#965  by Citizen Paguma - 3/13/2004 7:25:38 PM

Sadly, I think the whole way they handle constructors has to be re-addressed.

I'm not sure I understand why the changes were made in the first place, so I can't be sure if they addressed the original problem. They however certainly add a big nuissance to the game.

Right now the thing that's sort of bothering me is that Logistics just don't make any sense at all. The approach with maintenance costs made a lot more sense. The cost of the actual starbase rising doesn't make any sense, or certainly are not something Logistics should cover.

I realize the current system is actually often cheaper than the old maintenance way, but that's not my point. My point is, the current system just doesn't make sense.

Also, the prompting at each upgrade is just annoying. I hope they make an option where it'll auto-accept, because I hate havign to select and accept each of the upgrades when I'm doing 20 or so upgrades in a turn. It's just annoying and I wouldn't be asking for the upgrade if I wasn't willing to pay for it.



                        
#966  by Diplomat Technician - 3/13/2004 8:25:33 PM

I hate havign to select and accept each of the upgrades when I'm doing 20 or so upgrades in a turn. It's just annoying and I wouldn't be asking for the upgrade if I wasn't willing to pay for it.


Should start a petition on main forum.

This is reasonable and should be easy to add.

                          
#967  by Citizen Lothmorg the Black - 3/13/2004 9:41:06 PM

I would love to see Stardock offer all of the previous versions as well as the current one. I like ver 1.13 and from what I've read, I don't want to upgrade to anything else. I'm happy where I am and if I do decide to upgrade, I might be screwing myself.

          
#968  by Diplomat Technician - 3/13/2004 11:01:24 PM

damoose, a few pages back you came up with a fraction on the shield.

Told me it be along time before my shield darkens.
The pace I been cracking out Masos, 22 this month I should not have along wait.

Where does this fraction come from ?
[Message Edited]

                          
#969  by Veteran Theoden of Rohan - 3/13/2004 11:40:29 PM

Just finished my first new AP Beta game, and boy...what a long, strange trip it was!

Culture bombing isn't impossible, just so incredibly expensive that most people would not do it...of course, I'm not most people and I wanted to test it out! It appears 9 Party Palaces in a sector and a few in another surrounding sector could do the trick. I suggest colonizing a crap planet in the Party sector to boost influence, then dumping it when you flip your enemy. I also got that weird 0 Modules thing...but only on certain modules...what's that about? If it popped up that message, I just tried another one until it worked. Some modules cost money, some don't. This is extremely mind-boggling to me! Either they all cost something, or none of them cost anything...paying 500 BC to build the Party Palace module seems ridiculous because you know it's just a penalty...there's no real reason behind it except to punish Culture Bombers.

When I heard people talking about the AIs not trading techs for cash, I thought maybe the minors would still play their game...nope. Nobody in the game gives you more than 2 BC for 2 or 3 months now for any tech. Not a serious problem, because I can pretty much maintain a balanced budget through trade, but for those who already had trouble with the economy, this is crippling!

There was a significant score boost for Maso it appears. I got 43,000 points for a Small map. And trust me, I earned every dang point.

                          
#970  by Citizen littlewotts_ - 3/13/2004 11:50:33 PM

I seem to be able to flip planets with just one or two PP in a sector, but I was able to get the majority of the influence wonders in my last maso. That must have a serious affect. What bonus picks did you use?

                          
#971  by Citizen damoose - 3/14/2004 5:01:35 AM

Where does this fraction come from ?


Tech... Comes from the mwc statbot here: http://idle.thehueys.com/midwest/statbot/ Link

I don't know the exact break point for each shield change. I think I saw a discussion on it in the Main forum one day but d&mn if I can find it. So I am making an educated guess based on the different players and their current shields and dificulty.

[Message Edited]

                      
#972  by Citizen damoose - 3/14/2004 5:17:30 AM

I'm happy where I am and if I do decide to upgrade, I might be screwing myself


Depends on what strat you are playing and what you goal is; ruling the 'verse or just kill as many Yor as possible Both of which are worthy goals IMHO.

Remember the stated goal is to appeal to the mid range player. Which makes perfect sense if you the one selling the game.

The high end should be difficult or maybe even more than difficult. The low end the opposite. So it will be interesting to see how they 'encourage' every one to move up. It can be very expensive to support older versions as time moves on. Not that I'm saying this is the case... But they have a business to run as well.


                      
#973  by Citizen damoose - 3/14/2004 5:20:27 AM

but I was able to get the majority of the influence wonders in my last maso.


D&mn... How do you do that? It's gotta be a time thing, about what to do when and I just don't have it down yet I guess.

That must have a serious affect


From everyting I've read... the answer to that question would be a resounding yes.

                      
#974  by Citizen damoose - 3/14/2004 5:32:08 AM

Right now the thing that's sort of bothering me is that Logistics just don't make any sense at all. The approach with maintenance costs made a lot more sense. The cost of the actual starbase rising doesn't make any sense, or certainly are not something Logistics should cover.


Hummm... SBs should be expensive IMHO; both to create and to maintain. However this needs to be offset be the ability to defend them. Culture flipping using PPTS is cheese. It's cheese I use extensively by the way, but it's still cheese.

Logistics should not cover startup cost, it should cover maintenance costs. The more modules added the higher the maintenance. There may in fact by two separate but parallel techs. One dealing with the construction costs and one dealing with the maintenance costs. Writing two is more work that one so I don't think we'll see both, just something 'combined' as we have it now.

                      
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