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Empire Recruiting in the Galactic Forum
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| I had a small moment of stupidity, and it will never happen again. |
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Chill, brother! I think we've had a good discussion about it and I am clearer about the intent of the plan. As stated, I'm happy to let things proceed and evaluate the impact over the next few weeks. 
          
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ok... here is my feelings...
There is absolutly no need to have ANY empire talk in the main forum except in the 1 and only sticky about empires and recruiting..
Wait a minute... let me finish..
1. At the bottom left of every message there is an Icon that shows ppl what empire you are in. so there is no need to tell ppl what empire you are in.
2. any queries about empires can and should be pointed to the 1 and only sticky about empires and recruiting.. where empires that are interested in recruiting have taken the time and effort to explain themselves in the appropriate place
3. The only reason that anyone should need to place a link in the stratagy forum is to place a link to where they have publushed their stratagy.. be it in another msg or on a web site.
4.The only reason that anyone should need to place a link in the mods forum is to place a link to where they have publushed their stratagy.. be it in another msg or on a web site.
5. all existing empire related threads in each of the non empire forums should be closed with a msg stating that the thread will continue in the empires forum.
I know that ppl will hate me for stating this.. but unless there is a clean break by all then it's not going to work.. you'll find that if ppl can see a loophole or any way to circumvent the honor rules then they will feel obligated to at least try..
Stardock/Galciv have setup a forum for us to do empire stuff in.. the general forum should now simply be religated to talking about problems / questions about the games (galCiv and AP) themselves and about the metaverse and forums in general
Any Disputes should be handled by the galactic council (after all thats what that forum is for..
I hardly ever voice my opinion as I always get into trouble.. and no doubt will do so about this msg.
All that being said its up to those who control the forums as to what they want.. not us.. we can only abide by their decisions... sure we can suggest things.. after all thats how empires got their own forum..
   
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| 1. At the bottom left of every message there is an Icon that shows ppl what empire you are in. so there is no need to tell ppl what empire you are in. |
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I've come across newbies who have no idea what those icons represent.
| Stardock/Galciv have setup a forum for us to do empire stuff in.. the general forum should now simply be religated to talking about problems / questions about the games (galCiv and AP) themselves and about the metaverse and forums in general |
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| All that being said its up to those who control the forums as to what they want.. not us.. we can only abide by their decisions... sure we can suggest things.. after all thats how empires got their own forum.. |
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Please check CariElf’s post #23. Empires are not being kicked out of any forums. (And #25 by Yoda is a good read.)
| I hardly ever voice my opinion as I always get into trouble.. and no doubt will do so about this msg. |
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Somebody needs a group hug. C’mere J.T.! Group hug everyone! Group hug!
   
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I'm not jiving with my own cut-n-paste response. Sorry for taking up all this space folks. Please bear with me. So...
I believe we should be more cautious about reducing empire activity in the Galactic Forum. We could be cutting our own throats. Some people simply don’t take note of the empire icons or even the list of extra forums. Heck, I kept forgetting those forums were there during my first couple of weeks! Would we really want to take all empire material out of the other forums and rely on a single thread for our lifeblood? That’s risky.
Now is a good time to point out how our “guide to preferred conduct” is going to be enforced. It’s simple. We’re going to harass and shun, but also persuade and encourage. As ugly as the first two are, that’s how norms work. My point is that as we develop our “guide”, we should keep in mind what we’re actually going to end up doing to other people.
And one more thing, I'm not in the Galactic Council. Hold on! Don’t flick any switches just yet. Let me ask y’all this: do you want the opinion of a nonveteran, nonemperor, nonsenator, just-plain-citizen?
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The only thing we need now is The Red Flag and the Sovit Union anthem to be the Communist Metaverse Union. I think and this is my opinion, no the opinion of the Diplomats, it is me speaking, that you are all going way too far into these rules, regulations, you cannot post here, you cannot do this, or that, etc. In first place this is a game, GAME, people come to this forums to talk, share and exchange ideas, opinions and whatever else they want to talk about,and I agree that must be game related.
Now all these prohibitions about you cannot post here, or there, or you cannot invite people to join your empire is pure rubbish, waste of time, when I joined this forum, the recruiting was already going on and I am talking about 6 months ago, and no one care about it, now suddenly because couple of people don't like it, we have to change something that 99% of the players are fine with, I don't agree, and if this will cost me belonging to an empire so be it. It is ridiculous that we will change the ways that we had before just because a couple of player don't agree with empire recruiting. That is just plain nonsense.
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#82
by Citizen Bam_Bam - 2/9/2004 12:14:29 PM
Rules are necessary when some folks cannot show a modicum of self-restraint.
The vast majority of folks in empires can adhere to the "modicum of self-restraint" tenet. There are some who cannot. I agree that writing a ruleset can be troublesome and tiring, and that too many rules will reduce the fun and banter that is the metaverse.
I suggest that folks try to adhere to trying to keep their responses in the general forum on-topic and save their banter and SPAM (yes there is a whole lot of spam) to the empire forum. There is a whole lot of material for people to wade through to get information here--it is incumbent upon those of us with experience to make that journey as quick as possible.
All statistics can be twisted to whatever purpose. Responding to someone with a question with a pitch for an empire is spam. Period. That it (sometimes) generates even more not-necessarily value-added posts is even more reason to show restraint.
There are LOTS of off-topic posts and places for pirate raids, stories, banter, and the like. That is part of what makes this place fun. But let's call a spade a spade. Unsolicited ads, even if part of an otherwise helpful post, are spam. Empire recruiting is fine--heck, I didn't really mind it in the general forum--except that the continuous bumps were pushing less active, newbie/questioning threads off the front page more frequently.
I like the idea of an empire forum--where we can let our hair down and spam to our hearts' content. The banter and raids, et al are fun, but losing that on the general forum because we reduce the spam there is a SMALL price to pay, IMO.
To add a little more, because I cannot let this stand...
| The only thing we need now is The Red Flag and the Sovit Union anthem to be the Communist Metaverse Union. I think and this is my opinion, no the opinion of the Diplomats, it is me speaking, that you are all going way too far into these rules, regulations, you cannot post here, you cannot do this, or that, etc. In first place this is a game, GAME, people come to this forums to talk, share and exchange ideas, opinions and whatever else they want to talk about,and I agree that must be game related. |
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Oh my--so calls for some restraint and a general agreement on how to behave ourselves in public (general forum) lead to calls that this is the Soviet Union. Puh-lease. This is a complete red (pun intended) herring. There is no one imposing centralized restrictions from above. What this is--is the community reacting to (whether completely founded or not) a view that the continuous banter and recruiting in the general forum is detracting from the game, the people who play it, and the community dialogue ABOUT THE GAME. Recruitment threads are about the empires and the metaverse--NOT THE GAME, even if empires and metaverse are enhancements to the game experience (IMO).
As for where to go--I say the best we can do is to publish agreeable guidelines to help the metaverse empire community demonstrate restraint in the general forum. Rules invite loopholes; rules lawyering; calls of fascism, communism, censorship and the like; and more posts that are about how we are behaving on the forums instead of the usual cheery banter about the competition, the game, the stories, the drinks, etc. My general criteria (and I admit that I may not be 100% compliant on this ) for posting in the general forum is--"Does my post help answer a question, correct a clarification, articulate a game feature/bug/exploit/balance issue, or document my game experience?" If I answer in the negative, then maybe I ought to take my post elsewhere. Food for thought, and probably not all inclusive. But let's not run screaming that Lenin has arisen just yet, ok?
- Bam-Bam
[Message Edited]
  
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Hello, do you own the Metaverse? Who gave you the right to proclaim yourself the almighty ruler and enforcer of the Metaverse? Your empire and few people of your empire are the ones having problems with other players about spam, you are the problem no all the other players, seems like you cannot participate in a multiplayer forum with many empires.
This is a game, and here we come and post our pitch inviting players to join us, how are you going to enforce a prohibition if a player for one particular empire wants to post a request for someone to join his or hers empire, there is no way for you to do it exceptfor you to ask them to no write in your tread and even that cannot stop anyone for posting in your tread.
So leave these nonsense bickering behind and enjoy the game and have some fun.
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I am not trying to be offensive to anyone, but you all are taking this situation to an extreme that it is becoming ridiculous, what are you oursuing? Making the players upset and depleting the forum of good players?
This is a game, this is not real life, we are part of a community to come here, have some fun, play the game, submit points and get our respective empires higher in the table score. Nothing else. 
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This is a multiempire community, one empire and few players of one empire should abide by what all the other empires want, no what they want. And again this is my opinion, no the opinion of the Diplomats. 
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| All I am saying is that let's keep the the GAME as the focus for the public (general forum) area. That should serve the new user (and even not-so-new user) best in providing more easy-to-find information. As for the empire forum--go nuts--that's what it's there for...- Bam-Bam |
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Well that is different of what has been portrayed here, the main idea after reading all these posts is the following
1-YOU CANNOT POST ANY RECRUITING PITCH EXCEPT IN SOME PARTICULAR ARE
2-YOU CANNOT INVITE PEOPLE THAT ARE NEW AND YOU ARE HELPING TO JOIN YOUR EMPIRE.
That is just wrong. These are a multiplayer, multiempire site, this is not one empire site.
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I am not trying to start a war, but why all these changes and all these bickering, these doesnot help any of the new players to feel themselves welcome here. Lets leave everything the way it was and if you don't like someone posting in your tread just ask them politely to no do so anymore and that is nothing else is needed.
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| The only thing we need now is The Red Flag and the Sovit Union anthem to be the Communist Metaverse Union. |
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Thank you, Mayito, for saying what I didn't have the b@!|s to say. Seriously, hair was starting to stand up on the back of my neck.
But let's all try to calm down please. Pleeeaaase.
| This is a game, this is not real life, we are part of a community to come here, have some fun, play the game, submit points and get our respective empires higher in the table score. Nothing else. |
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To "have some fun" covers quite a lot in this community. What's fun for some will detract from what others find to be fun. The intent of this thread is to keep conflict to a minimum.
1-YOU CANNOT POST ANY RECRUITING PITCH EXCEPT IN SOME PARTICULAR ARE
2-YOU CANNOT INVITE PEOPLE THAT ARE NEW AND YOU ARE HELPING TO JOIN YOUR EMPIRE. |
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Let's try:
1-Please restrict recruiting pitches in such and such manner for such and such reasons.
2-Please limit the recruitment pitch that you may provide in a helpful post.
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I agree with you Kitwarrior, I joined my first empire because someone helped me with a tech issue and he invited me to join his empire and I did, I didn't see anything wrong with that. But that is me, maybe because at my work I get anywhere from 118 e-mails to 38, I think that doesnot bother me too much, but maybe bother to other people the sales pitch of each empire.
Anyway I will NOT follow any rule or agreement that was made without my vote or approval, I will respect the request of those like Sirian and others that oppose to sales pitch, I will NOT post in your treads. But I will NOT abide by any rule that prohibits me to invite someone to join my empire after I have rendered help for any tech issue or mod issue.
Last statement about this issue.
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Let's step back a little and examine events. The community is undergoing an exercise is self-regulating here, and that really means we need to reach a consensus position that everyone is at least willing to trial for a given period of time. My original issue with Exar and ABT arose because I had interpreted our agreement to be a 'zero tolerance' proposal, which basically meant no recruiting other than one sticky outside the Empires forum (ie exactly what J.T. is saying). Now, when I reviewed the discussion I found that my interpretation was in error, and the consensus was that most of the community did not want such a 'tight' position, that is, people still wanted to spruik their empire at the end of a post where they were helping people, which was kind of a halfway position that would cut down on clutter but not prevent some recruitment. I have no problem with trying the consensus position for a while and evaluating the outcome. I do not expect all new schemes to work perfectly off the bat - I think there are times you just have to call a halt to the debate, put a system in place, and see how it goes - with a willingness to adjust over time depending on outcome. I feel that is what consensus-based self regulation is all about.
A further observation: do you know what this bulletin board lacks? Sigs. Those little sentences that most other bulletin boards allow you to put as a tag at the end of every post. In other places, players put empire recruiting lines and advertising in their sigs, and no one gives a damn. If you have been following the RB succession game at CivFanatics, you will see that every single post Sirian makes ends with no less than THREE links advertising other web addresses to sites connected to Civ3 and GalCiv and Realms Beyond. Imagine that! Bam-Bam: don't tell me there's no advertising spam in the RB universe!  I wonder, if this board allowed sigs, whether this topic would even surface?
Thus, as it stands, we should now be able to take the heat out of the debate. If you're answering a post outside the Empires forum, a tag line about your empire is appropriate (a kind of sig, if you will). Run with this for a while; see if it reduces the noise and makes for a happier general forum, and see if is does anything bad to the empires, and then we'll review it together and alter it as needed.
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| I think you will find that we try to express our views without personal attacks and tend to keep to ourselves. |
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I think tat views expressed by Sirian although not naming individuals included personal attacks.
It's all very well to make these statements about how Realms Beyond conduct themselves, but please practice what you preach.
In the "offending thread" as Sirian puts it you have provide the links to the Succession Game "sponsored by Realms Beyond".. Isn't sponsorship a form of Empire advertising?
 
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I like your idea Wild Wombat (woao I never would have believe that we could agree about something )
we need sigs that way you don't need to invite nobody, it will be part of your sig
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Come and join the Rebel cause down with the burocrats
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Mayito - I obviously didn't make myself clear enough. Sorry. I was trying to clarify for you what the current understanding really is. To include a recruitment pitch with helpful answers or advice is considered ok by the... um... (majority?). Anyhow, it won't be considered "good form" if you post your recruitment pitch in the same thread more than once. Then it'll be considered "spam". Also, this only applies to the Galactic Forum.
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That sounds OK with me. I am taken a AWOL for a while (Internet problems again).
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#97
by Citizen Bam_Bam - 2/9/2004 4:59:51 PM
| If you have been following the RB succession game at CivFanatics, you will see that every single post Sirian makes ends with no less than THREE links advertising other web addresses to sites connected to Civ3 and GalCiv and Realms Beyond. Imagine that! Bam-Bam: don't tell me there's no advertising spam in the RB universe! I wonder, if this board allowed sigs, whether this topic would even surface? |
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Ah! You have seen our little RB spam secret! What you do not know is the history behind this "advertising". There was a time where such "advertising" was not a part of Sirian's posting--but he can tell the story better than I. Suffice to say that he (we) migrated to standards of the community--and deemed that the signatures form of advertising was not specifically offensive. I am SURE that Sirian can write more to the point on this, if he so chooses.
| I think tat views expressed by Sirian although not naming individuals included personal attacks. |
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Blunt post by Sirian. Calling out specific behavior. I would not call that a personal attack.
| In the "offending thread" as Sirian puts it you have provide the links to the Succession Game "sponsored by Realms Beyond".. Isn't sponsorship a form of Empire advertising? |
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Could be. I was answering the next question of "What succession games? Where can they be found?". Took a bit of work to re-locate the links, and specify the conditions to avoid specific spoilers, but I guess that doesn't matter...
I still have to agree with Sirian that the last line of answering a question of a newcomer (or non-affiliated player) with a "if you are looking to join an empire.." moniker is unsolicited advertising. Just because we are helpful does not give us the right to dance about singing "tiger brand coffee, it's a real treat, even tigers prefer a cup of it..to real meat".
The use of signatures or pseudo-signatures may hit the correct balance. Say for example:
----------begin example-------------------
Dear newbie,
answer to question
name
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Link - home of the xx empire
----------end example---------------------------
Good idea, Wombat.
-- Bam-Bam
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Good points. But still I don't agree with all of them. Some of these regulations sound good, but others not. I think that you can only enforce them if you have a moderator, because how do you plan to enforce the regulations?
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as all societies do - harass, shun, persuade, and encourage
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