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Empire Recruiting in the Galactic Forum
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Ok, lets resume our daily activities, so, where are the order of businesses, here Emperor Makito, sheeshhhh, they don't know that yet, sheeeeshhh. Ooopsss sorry Sir.
1- Are we going to agree?
2- Are we going to disagree?
3- Are we going to agree that we disagree?
4- Are we going to go to the Prancing Ponny and vote about these prior 3 decisions over a glass of Altarian Malta with biscottis from the EURO seized freighter donated by the GROSS?
5- None of the above
6- We will keep bickering until our tongues get purple.
7- We will choose a galactic council formed by 1 member of each empire as spokeperson and each empire will have the right to express their opiniuon and then vote on.
8- Again none of the above but with a smile. 
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tell me why cats don't like closed doors.
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Actually, it has been my experience that cats don't like open doors. It used to sound like a haunted house at my house when the cat decided that every room needed privacy. 
          
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Did you shake the malta and then add the FOTR whiskey? Ooops sorry I forgot to give you the recipe how to drink Altarian Malta
Altarian Malta + FOTR Whiskey + EURO brandy= 
if your stomach is not strong enough or you take one too many 
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I think the last five posts clearly indicate we have reached the end of serious discussions and can just get on with life! One line sigs are OK, spam is otherwise out unless in this Forum. Pass me one of those Malta thingies.... 
   
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Grab an issue of the Metaverse Review...I discussed the recruiting issue in it, Top Story.
 Link
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Maltha Tingie for two here, hurry up Torian, move it, move it, move it.... aarrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhh!!!!
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Come and join the Diplomats!!! (sirens of police cars), FBI, FBI, put your hands up!!!!, Hands up!!! You are under arrest for flagrant violation of the rule 1.1 from the Intergalactical Council of the Metaverse, move it, move it. Hands behind your ears, now, get into the patrol car. (Sirens of flying patrol cars taking the new Mayito777 clone also know as Makito to jail for recruiting in other empire tread)
You deserved Makito, you forgot that we had a meeting about no recruiting in other empires treads. Lock him up!!!!
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NO! Recruitment IS allowed in this forum! You're under arrest for thinking that you did something wrong when you didn't! Take him away!
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Ooopsss, I demand a lawyer, I want Theoden to be my attorney.!!!!
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Thank you your honor, thank you Great attorney Bam-Bam. I am running over the Prancing Pony time for an Altarian Malta spiked with FOTR whiskey and EURO brandy.
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#139
by Citizen Bam_Bam - 2/10/2004 10:15:55 PM
ok. Hopefully my last post here--and I am taking some of the conversation from the thread in the general forum, and bringing it up here. Rationale is let's keep our spats in the empire forum, since that's what this is all about.
The last page of that forum got ugly. I honestly do not care who or what started it all, but I think some things need to be said in closing (feel free to take your closer to this--I am not destined for the last word.)
Sirian had some strong words about his view on the recruitment pitches or spam in his (and mine and others') words. Sirian, I generally appreciate your blunt tone, and generally agree with you on the topic, but I found the tone and acid in your post detracted from your message. Yes, blunt words and "tell it like it is" is all well and good, but the profanity (implied by characters) and metaphors used in your descriptions crossed the line. To be honest, it reminded (reminded--not saying that it was exactly the same) me of some of the posts seen in the not-so-recent past on the RB general board to which you objected (again I say reminded, since there is not an apples-to-apples comparison). I think over 95% of your posts on the subject is vintage Sirian--hard nosed, serious, strong arguements, unwavering in you principles. Your seriousness in your posting is congruent with your seriousness in all affairs like this, and I think it does you justice, even if a significant portion of the community (if not the majority) does not consider this topic as serious as you do [actually some of us (me) think both camps are off and the gravity is between the "dead serious" and "it's only a game" registers  ].
However, in my opinion, two specific areas of your post crossed the line from hard-nosed and blunt into viscious and insulting. You have not come clean on your insulting tone (namely the "spamming everything to [bleep] line and the fungus metaphor). I have seen you hold others accountable for such vitriol. Based on my history with you in games, on forums, and the like (even if it has been just about a year), I have come to expect better from you. The vitriol is not congruent with your normal posting behavior.
Darkspire--I do not have a problem with you defending your position. Where you crossed the line, IMO, is where you jump on the "taking out of context" piece of Sirian's quote. Darkspire, I can paraphrase your first response post to Sirian as follows:
1) Mellow out Mr. Sirian, it's only a game forum. (X4)
2) I do not like spam, but this doesn't qualify as spam.
3) If all the people who have words like yours go it will be a warmer place.
4) I don't agree that the thread you reference as spam is spam--they were plenty of people from many empires helping people and not using harsh words, so where's the harm?
5) Dude, switch to Decaf. You have insulted people, this is a great place. I used to enjoy reading your posts, but if you keep it up I won't, (mild insult on Sirian's word choice preference).
He quoted your fourth point, which was the only meaty one in the arguement about the spam that he had not already addressed (the rest of the post responding to Yoda offered his opinion about whether the posts were spam. How is that taking it out of context? Your post was also insulting, albeit in a non-chalant and flippant manner.
Yoda, you then chimed in with the "me too" position with Darkspire's post, with the added statement that this was the "common tactic of those who cannot argue with the opposing party's complete statement, and thus pick and choose sections that cause people to misconstrue what the original author had intended." I ask you--how is what Sirian stated taking Darkspire's argument out of context? Darkspire's other point (diagreeing that the thread in question was spam) was answered as Sirian was answering your post.
After that jibe, you then speak to the matter of importance of this arguement rather than answer to all of the issues Sirian raised. It's only a game forum, right, and all anyone was doing was opening up more avenues of the gaming by inviting them to visit their empire, right. Yeah. One view. You did not address that the one post turned into many--yeah, they were in general, harmless, but off the topic of what was originally brought up in the thread. Sirian's view is that it was shameless recruiting--I think of it more as off-topic spam. You speak to the initial recruitment one-liner, but did not answer what then blossemed. This is not world hunger, right, but you are only answering part of the post, which looks like "picking and choosing sections" of the Sirian's post to which you responded. I don't think you were trying to misconstrue his arguements, but you were not answering to a germane point about how the single post became many. Be careful about accusing someone of cherry-picking piece parts of a post to quote when you are doing essentially the same thing.
Your original post contained a statement. "Recruiting following helpful advice IS allowed under the ban, and frankly I see NOTHING wrong with it, helping a new player and afterwards inviting them to join your Empire of helpful experienced players is not a crime. If the Realms Beyond chooses not to do this, or be helpful to new players in general doesn't concern me;". Sirian called you out on this as a cheap shot. I agree that your statement could easily be read as a cheap shot--no less offensive then much of the diatribe we've seen here. I am not sure whether your intent was to say that RB is not helpful, but you have not chosen to answer to your original statement. For what it's worth, I think everyone here does a heck of a lot helping people new to the game--regardless of whether they have chosen to mention their empire or not. We at RB have put a lot effort into trying to put together a whole lot of material on the game, even if we have come late to the party. Your cut (whether it was poor phrasing or intended) was uncalled for. I do not feel that the help that RB has provided is better or worse than those who have helped and pitched. Some of us feel that the pitch after the help is spam--others do not. Those opinions are unlikely to change. Nevertheless, I feel you do owe us at RB an accounting on your original statement.
I will no longer argue the merits of whether a short blurb stated after a helpful comment is spam or not. The community has reached a reasonable approach to allow signature-like blurbs at the end of posts. Practical, balanced view reached despite some of the fits and starts in the debate.
The reason I decided to post this was my strong view that a couple of the fits and starts need a bit more. The folks that I addressed directly can choose to answer or not. I have no power here, other than the logic and reasoning of the words I write. If you do not want to discuss this in the forum, feel free to send me an email sheridan . home @ verizon . net (lose the spaces).
- Bam-Bam
   
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#141
by Citizen Bam_Bam - 2/10/2004 11:10:33 PM
Oh, and one more thing---
Looks like my post here and your (Exar's and Yoda's) posts were being created at the same time.
Exar--you are getting close to the line to which you accuse Sirian of crossing. I would point out that you look at your actions in the context of whether or not you wink wink, nudge nudge discussion that occurred after the one-liners asking for a visit to Jedi and Diplomat country passes the on-topic test.
You also quite emphatically state that your original post responding to Sirian tore his arguements apart. That statement is as arrogant as anything Sirian wrote. Maybe not full of vitriol, but arrogant, especially when the heart of your arguement is that his view is biased (with the implication that yours is not). Sirian did not bring up the topic, and had a post before this one that discusses on-topic posting and other forum etiquitte (sp?).
There was then some quick checking of forum history, and a general consensus that this was being blown out of proportion--along with a concern addressed by Cari about the ability to sift through the empire posts to get at real game issues, and TWO posts by LDiCesare on the subject--to which NO ONE responded. It was LDiCesare who brought up that people who do not care for it will just leave, and how he personally does not frequent the forums because of the volume. I am not convinced that Sirian's view is biased to the point of non-belief. It differs from yours (and others), but just because you do not agree does not mean his view is biased (as in, not impartial, therefore, wrong).
Also, the whole view quoted by Yoda of Sirian's posting as "unfounded and downright wrong personal attacks" is a gross simplification. I agree that the vitriol in two of the areas (grey area on the "shamelessly" piece) was out of line. Wrong and unfounded--not really--there were more than just Sirian stating that the pitching was spam, so I guess his opinion is not alone, ok?
As far as the "shameless" charge, and the escalation charge, if you look at your "bantering" posts--were they really adding value to the the thread? They were off-topic, so in a strict constructionist view, spam. That neither you (Exar) nor AMK intended any of your discussion as hard-sells does not refute the fact that you had moved off from the topic of the thread (question on game--answer to question) to some other topic of your own making. I do not necessarily subscribe to the harsh view Sirian painted on the motivations of empire posters, but his view of what those motivations MAY be is a valid arguement, even if that arguement is not consistent with WHAT YOU INTENDED. He presented an alternative (and harsh) view. I did not see that as a personal attack--the use of the word shameless was perhaps a bit harsh, since your foul here was more one of straying from the subject matter to your own ends vice shameless selling of product.
Neither of the parties in question is clean on assuming everyone agrees with you. No one more guilty or less, ok. Remember the originator of the thread (Bill Ko) and LDiCesare?
Lastly, I have to disagree on the whole taking out of context arguement that Yoda made, and you (Exar) laud with an "Amen, Brother". I do not think your charges of bias constitute taking apart the arguements. That goes for the next paragraph that talks about how you have not insulted in your "taking apart" his arguements. Exar, your original line responding to Sirian read: "Insulting to many people in this forum Sirian and arrogant to boot." Your statement that you have taken apart his arguements is arrogant, and I do not think that stating that Sirian's call of "shameless" was a response to not sharing your views. I would characterize the behavior in the questioned thread as off-topic and therefore rude. You may think rude is harsh and insulting, but there are more than one who have echoed that the amount of off-topic posting (whether they be empire recruiting/banter/whatever) has detracted from their experience here. Yes, if that were the only thread where this occurred, the foul is minor--almost unnoticable. In the context of the discussion--perhaps not so.
I have no particular quarrel with you Exar (or AMK), but I will speak out when I see the pot calling the kettle black. I think (yes, I could be mistaken) I have pointed out where many have crossed the line. Heck, maybe I have (if not here, maybe elsewhere)--if so, let me know and I will be accountable for my actions. I wanted my last post to be my final word on this subject, but the tone of Exar and Yoda's posts were a bit too holier than thou for my taste, and quite frankly, close to some of the things to which you were objecting.
[Minor edits for clarity]
- Bam-Bam
[Message Edited]
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I think that Bam Bam and others have explained their positions myself included. I don't agree with the ban. But I will respect it. So I think that the best thing now to do is to enjoy the game and help those new players that are coming daily, help them in the same way we were helped when we first arrived here.
Hopefully all these disagreements will end here and we can move along to other businesses.
So Shalom to all and good fly.
God speed in your quests.
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#143
by Citizen Sirian - 2/18/2004 8:22:26 PM
| Sirian had some strong words about his view on the recruitment pitches or spam in his (and mine and others') words. Sirian, I generally appreciate your blunt tone, and generally agree with you on the topic, but I found the tone and acid in your post detracted from your message. - BamBam |
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No doubt.
I got off on the wrong foot with many members of this community from the word go. My first post of substance was on the scoring system, about six months ago, and the chief response I got was a bunch of irritated and hostile "community veterans" come into my thread, growl at me or worse, and insist that the topic had been played out already and was entirely unwelcome.
This was my first impression of the GalCiv community.
To me, all of those people behaved very rudely. I see a lot of rude behavior that is tolerated in this community. I find some of it to be obnoxious, but I'm admittedly too quick to turn adversarial with those who have annoyed me. Clearly, though, I'm not the only one, as that was the greeting I got from the loudest voices in this community when I first showed up. The impact of that has rippled forward and is felt in my defensiveness and offensiveness in dealing with other members of this community to this day.
Over time, these various bits have piled up to where it doesn't take much from this community to irritate me any more. That's very unfortunate for me, because it is coming to spoil my experience with the game. Too much of that and I become the offender, the same grouch in the same position of growling at others as the few sourpuss folks who gave me such a rude and unwelcoming introduction to this community.
Pointing to mistreatments worked upon me by others does not excuse my misbehaviors, which are now becoming a growing list. The issues I care about are increasingly being buried by distractions, and that is taking all the wind out of my sails.
No matter how I fight the distractions, I only seem to feed them and watch them grow. I suppose, then, it is a lost cause. I spoke out against empire recruitment, but it is such a sacred cow for several folks, the issue grew larger and more distracting than the original offense. I should have kept my mouth shut. I made the problem worse. 
Empires are now getting in the way of my fun, rather than enhancing it -- across the board. That seems to have been the case from the word go, where my criticism of the scoring system stepped on sacred cows of top ranking players who already had a lot invested into the scoring and did not welcome any criticism of it. Lately, it has extended to a kind of hardcore competitiveness that colors (in my view, taints) everything about the Metaverse.
A few players have signed on to try succession games with us, BamBam, but most have been holding back. Is the interest level in this game type not there? For the majority, likely, but what of the active minority? Several other empires have tried to start "their own" succession games. Containing it within their own empires is the apparent priority for some. That leads me to wonder if many are holding back for fear of what kind of boost to the RB empire their participation would cause. Does that mean some would view playing with us as being somehow disloyal to their own empires? I wouldn't have believed it, but the closer I look, the more I see how much the competitive urge dominates this culture. The recruitment issue is one more face of it. Empire hopping is another.
Because of this understanding, a new possibility has emerged in my mind. What if our tournament is viewed by most of the community as a sinister vehicle to forward what they believe to be our competitive urges? Many players would distrust or even loathe the tourney. Others might try to start their own tourneys not because they believe they can do a better job, but strictly out of competition, either to have "their own" or, worse, as another vehicle for recruitment wars, where having the most players will be the measurement of success, rather than the game play.
In recent days, I have been reassessing my participation in the Metaverse and here at this forum. The tensions with Samurai Ben in our SG were very costly. My blowup with the Canadians is even more so.
Jaxom's somewhat jaded view of the game is starting to affect me. I managed to hold the line in my own gameplay on not overdoing the spending -- I have not bought alien fleets to use against them early, I have not refined the art of using bribes over 99 turns to make sure I always keep everybody at stable relations, NEVER risking a war, and more. But these additional limits I've played under have hidden the truth from me. The game balance is broken without those added boundaries. Like, hopelessly broken. The one element of the game that kept it lively was the fight to reach stable relations in the early and middle game, combined with dealing with the wars that occurred if you failed. But Jaxom is right, you can ALWAYS buy your way out of that, if you set your mind to it, and I had not fully realized this, but my own gameplay has been creeping in that direction on its own even within the extra limits I set for myself.
There's no point to the game if you can't lose. Jaxom has reached that point, and I'm there too if I lift my voluntary spending no-no's. Not good.
Other than to take my turns in the SG's, I have not touched this game in over a month. I downloaded the patch v1.19 on Friday and started a game, and within ten minutes, I found myself thinking, "I've been here and done this before." The ONLY point to the game is to reach stable relations, because from there, you've got it won, only a matter of mopping up. But now that I KNOW how easy and pointless it can be, how utterly formulaic and certain it is, to keep those relations stable using gifts that can be spread out over 99 turns, now even that element of fun I used to find in this game is gone. I shut it down and went back to Morrowind. That's a very bad omen for my future GalCiv participation. This game may need a major upgrade TO THE AI to be playable for me into the future.
The negatives are accumulating. What's the point of designing a tournament now? I'm losing faith in my ability to write enough rules to fix all the holes in the game balance. I've already lost faith in the rest of this community -- not the members, some of whom I like very much, but the community as a whole. I no longer expect any effort we make to be received positively by the rest of the community. Personal dislike of and animosity toward me on the part of some will get in the way. Some may even do drive-bys and sniping, or other forms of engaging in distractions, and that would not be fair to participants. Worst of all, I know I'd get absolutely steamed at it, the community would give a pass to the provokers, dump all their wrath on me because I don't mince my words and attach all the politically correct catch phrases, and this pattern of conflict would swallow the events.
We could ignore this community the way we ignore the CFC GOTM and still have fun, but are there enough RB players to sustain the effort with just our members participating? Perhaps. But what if I've already run out of legs? Then what? Would those newer to the game still be excited about it if I (and possibly others) who've been with it longer have stopped playing?
The expansion pack has always been the promise of injecting new life, but to my knowledge, the economics still work the same, and those are the most broken. Jaxom's definitely right about that.
Then look at your treatment in this thread, BamBam. You've taken pains to be diplomatic and unforceful, yet those who disagree with you still dismiss you just because you belong to RB. That's the worst example yet I've seen of that underlying competitive edge that marks (taints) everything in the Metaverse.
Everything involving galciv for me, over the past month, has become tainted. I'll take my share of responsibility for that, but the fact remains.
I deliberately stepped out of the way on this recruitment issue. The results match almost exactly what I first called for, which in my view vindicates my position, but it seems that it was necessary for me to vanish entirely (and thus stop offering those who disagreed with me the opportunity to focus on distractions to try to make the dispute about me and my "tone") in order for the rest of the community to arrive at the point I suggested to begin with. In this community at least, I have become too much of a polarizing factor. I'm afraid that this would taint and undermine any effort I make on a tournament.
So, at least as of this writing, I am backing off from that commitment. My apologies to any from RBCiv who picked up this game largely on the strength of my promise to design such a tournament.
- Sirian
 
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Dear Sirian,
I saw this post and thought long and hard about whether to respond, but something about it moved me I would honestly not like to see a person leave this environment in this manner who I think has something to contribute. I've seen the long posts go back and forward between members of my empire, the Canadians, the Jedi etc and yourself, and largely determined it was not worth prolonging those encounters or butting into them. If I may, I'd just like to offer some observations:
"I spoke out against empire recruitment, but it is such a sacred cow for several folks, the issue grew larger and more distracting than the original offense. I should have kept my mouth shut. I made the problem worse."
"I deliberately stepped out of the way on this recruitment issue. The results match almost exactly what I first called for, which in my view vindicates my position, but it seems that it was necessary for me to vanish entirely (and thus stop offering those who disagreed with me the opportunity to focus on distractions to try to make the dispute about me and my "tone") in order for the rest of the community to arrive at the point I suggested to begin with."
Well, yes and no, I guess. If you go back and read THIS thread, I actually had the same complaint you did, and called out Exar and ABT on the matter. There was, as you can see here, some to-and-fro about the proper approach, but I for one continued to contribute and I feel a consensus was reached that the majority seemed happy with and to date, have mostly respected. I suspect that the issue with your "tone" is seen as you 'playing the man and not the ball'. I realise you wont necessarily agree with that appraisal, and I'm not going to start extracting large tracts of text to analyse - it's just the impression of a listener. I would have welcomed you helping to push us towards a conclusion in this thread, since you and I apparently both believed in the same outcome.
"A few players have signed on to try succession games with us, BamBam, but most have been holding back. Is the interest level in this game type not there? For the majority, likely, but what of the active minority? Several other empires have tried to start "their own" succession games. Containing it within their own empires is the apparent priority for some. That leads me to wonder if many are holding back for fear of what kind of boost to the RB empire their participation would cause. Does that mean some would view playing with us as being somehow disloyal to their own empires?"
Um...have you actually ASKED anyone why they didn't want to play? I have to reflect to you that the above paragraph reads as a little...paranoid. It is certainly OK to ask "Maybe the interest isn't there?" but why does the "They fear us!" taunt have to follow? Again, I share a concern that interest levels in the game generally are falling, and my response was to get involved in the alliance tournament. We need people to think up things like succession games and alliance tournaments, because I am CONVINCED the Meteaverse cannot survive just by playing the game - everyone has a limit sooner or later. I watched the succession game with interest but would find it hard to keep up with the "run-and-gun" turn taking; it's not my cup of tea right now but I enjoyed watching (and even tried to discuss it, albeit in the wrong place). I will be absolutely honest and say that some techinques that I use in games would not fit with the RB stated philosophy - so I was concerned that I would be singled out for criticism if I suggested using, say, cultural bombing or terror strikes. It's the downside of having a rigid system of rules for playing - if you think you don't fit, you wont sign up. I'm not asking you to change your rules, by the way - again just offering an observation that might be a possible explanation for some behaviour.
"I've already lost faith in the rest of this community -- not the members, some of whom I like very much, but the community as a whole. I no longer expect any effort we make to be received positively by the rest of the community. Personal dislike of and animosity toward me on the part of some will get in the way. Some may even do drive-bys and sniping, or other forms of engaging in distractions..."
I hear that frustration and disappointment. You called me out in the RB thread on an incident that occurred a couple of months ago, where you and Ray had an exchange and he dismissed your attitude towards him. I added a wisecrack after that to the effect that you got what you deserved. My contribution was after the event, but I still reflect on that as poor, cheap behaviour on my part. I offer an unconditional apology for that and any other incidents that may have given offence. I have no problem owning up to things where I am in the wrong. It is hard to know sometimes where to stop with this stuff. I shall take the unusual step of granting you the famous Wild Wombat Teflon Coating wise-crack-proof seal from now on! I have had my moments with some on this board. Those who have hung around a while know that J.T. Quirk and Mayito have crossed paths with the Iron Paw before. I dont like flame wars (really, I don't). I try, in my imperfect humanity, not to hold a grudge. The icon the Star Trek empire now flies is one I sent to J.T as a kind of coloured olive branch. Mayito and I...well...we seem to get on all right for now! I'm not trying to tell you what a good guy I am - I'm just trying to say things dont need to be set in black-and-white concrete (how's that for mixing a metaphor).
"We could ignore this community the way we ignore the CFC GOTM and still have fun..."
I don't understand what this means, of course, but it does remind me of something I want to say to you. I have felt from some posts by you and Bam Bam that this may not be the first time you have run into some kind of...conflict?...with a gaming community that you participate in. When you arrived, alone at first and then with others, I was impressed with the strong core ethic of your group. I try and help create a positive esprit-de-corp within Special Forces, because it's the way to keep the group together and enjoying themselves. We too, have expanded a little into other computer games, although not much at this stage. On several occasions, I have read how the rest of us must understand that RB has strong opinions on things, has no fear in voicing their perception of the truth, how some people dont like to hear the truth as RB sees it, "I dont mince my words and attach all the politically correct phrases", etc. You are welcome to your truth, but your place in a community still rests in some degree on THE EARS THAT HEAR. I respect you as a good group of strategy gamers. I respect that you wish to set boundaries and rules on how your members play the game with a certain philosophical outcome in mind. I dont respect that those strong sentiments almost invariably come with the implication that those who do not share your gaming world view are inevitably "lesser" than you. Those words may not be stated, but that is what these ears hear, and I am sure I am not alone in this perception. At best your opinions are strong and vital; at worst, dogmatic and rigid. I'm afraid I wont be quoting tracts of text to support this, as I'm trying to give you my thoughts and impressions, as intangible as those things sometimes are. If we're not the only group you've had these issues with...what does this say? You've really given many of us the impression that the way we play is not "worthy"...would you be surprised that your reception becomes less warm as time passes? It's a GAME, man - no way is more or less worthy than any other! Some ways may not accord with stated RB rules, fine - but why take shots at that? I have heard you say it is your perogative to judge - and indeed that is true. It is your perogative to judge whether a given gaming technique is acceptable to the RB clan. It isn't your perogative to judge the worth of your fellow gamers as people, which is often how it translates. You can DO it, but dont be surprised if you run out of friends real fast. I say this thinking you may not realise that this is actually how the message often comes across, whether you intend it to or not. I think you're entitled to hear that honestly from me (and I suspect I'm not alone in that feeling).
"I downloaded the patch v1.19 on Friday and started a game, and within ten minutes, I found myself thinking, "I've been here and done this before."
Your criticisms of the game itself many of us would agree with. The AI has large holes in diplomacy and financing, and I guess all gamers can do is feedback to the developers and hope for improvements - or stop playing the game. Before your arrival, players like Staffa and Sergey decided to do just that, and I miss them. I'm playing less frequently lately, too. The choices are to keep playing and giving feedback, or keep devising new ways to enjoy the game (successions, alliance tournaments, etc) or walk away. It's always going to be a personal decision and we only have one life to spend. I have gained such friendship and enjoyment from the Empires, as well as the game, that I'm going to stay and try and make a go of it.
So what now for you? I guess you too, have choices to make. Human beings, by their very nature, aren't perfect creatures (and I'm not coming from a religious background with that comment). You could fold your arms across your chest, go back to the RB thread and ignore us completely. Play succession games and other stuff within your group - hopefully you'd still enjoy it. You could leave completely and find another game to play. Or...you could open your arms wide and embrace this particular cheesemonkey (just dont CALL me a cheesemonkey, cause you'll hurt my feelings, OK?)! You could, and we could, look at the way we've been interacting and break the mould...be different. Direct, passionate, committed...those are all good words to have...there's room for sensitive, accepting, understanding...and even for flippant and trivial within rich relationships. Honestly: I have not liked the way you conduct yourself on this board at times, and the way you treat others. Some of my responses to you have been fueled by that. I certainly accept you may feel the same about me. I dont like the way the RB process seems to expand from rules about game playing to rules about how to relate to others on a notice board. We could leave it at that, and that would remain fixed for all time. Or...we could entertain the possibility of recognising and respecting each other's differences...and discovering points of convergence....
I'm not going to sign my name, because it's at the top of the post. Yes, that was a cheap wise crack, but I'm just demonstrating the value of Wild Wombat Teflon Coating, because now you're covered, it's the last shot you'll ever see.
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