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Realms Beyond
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#30
by Citizen JaxomCA - 2/4/2004 1:52:11 AM
| My first TV was a dual use monitor for the C-64 stashed in my room. |
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Hehe, my first TV was also a monitor for my C-64, a 12 inch Sony. After the C-64, I got an Amiga and held unto it until it was clear the company was dying. While visiting a friend, he introduced me to MOO on a 286, that is when I got my first PC compatible. I kept my C-64 throughtout all those years and started it up once in a while to play M.U.L.E. About 5 years ago my son, who was 7 years old then, discovered the packed boxes and asked if he could install it. I said it probably didn't work anymore but we gave it a try and, surprise, it did work, including the TV/monitor. Only the sound was not working right but it was easy to fix. He played a game of M.U.L.E and loved the game so he ask if he could keep the C-64 and take it to his mother's house. He still has the computer but the TV died about 2 years ago. He still play M.U.L.E. once in a while, more than 20 years after I first got the computer and the game. I'd say it was money well spent. 
           
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#31
by Citizen Physicist - 2/4/2004 2:56:00 AM
Ah, the good old days. Played Civ1 on a 486, so speed was no a problem, but I had to share both the computer and the game with my brother. I remember that we put up kind of a time schedule for the evenings, he played one hour, then me the next, then he again, and so on.
What a game!
In my first computer days, for a very short time only, a friend had borrowed me a Commodore VC-20 (some predecessor of the C-64), which was already an old machine in these days (Amiga 500 and Atari ST were available). This machine had an amazing RAM of something like 6 or 8 kB (I do not remember exactly), and a tape deck as only storing device. What a *slow* computer ... But, it was fun... And I learned a few things while trying "work" with this machine.
- Physicist
   
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Gaaa! I'm not adding my two cent's worth about playing RRT, Pirates and GWBasic games on an 8086 as a kid...  Ok so I actually have played both Empire, Diplomacy and MoM in thelast year (after some years ca. 10 off them)
Sirian, Bam(dinosaur)Bam - Yupp I figured the page needed revamping. My problem came up when I was reading the site again, and didn't find something more comprehensive. Maybe a thread on the RB board for it? (Im not popping by there for a while though as I need my normal computer back first... the ads are brutal without blocking software  )
   
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Well it is done. I have submitted my request to become a Beyonder.
I remember my C-64 days of Pool of Radiance, 1541 singlesided disk drive, 8 disk and all the swapping to load the different zones. Yeah those were the days and 16 colors was just fine...
oldgamster
  
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Citizen WalkerintheMist wrote:
Commodore VC-20 |
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Oh I remember the grand old patriarch Vic-20... 
oldgamster
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Citizen WalkerintheMist wrote:
Commodore VC-20 |
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Oh I remember the grand old patriarch Vic-20...
oldgamster
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Citizen WalkerintheMist wrote:
(Im not popping by there for a while though as I need my normal computer back first... the ads are brutal without blocking software ) |
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Walker go into your preferences and open your security to custom and set all java to disabled and you can view the forum minus the ads...
oldgamster
edited for a spelling error
[Message Edited]
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Ahhh...Pool of Radiance on the C64! And how about The Bard's Tale?  Now those were great games!!
 
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Thank you... I look forward to the fun to be had...
oldgamster
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(Ahem) WalkerintheMist:
I'm posting this here, rather than in the Canadian thread where I stumbled across it, to avoid intruding on their appreciation of hockey, beer and other highlights of the Great White North.
Technician:
| You ever check the Top Players how can somebody win 3 games in a day all with 60000 points ? |
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WalkerintheMist:
| By using the amazingly cheesy 'Lightning Alpha Strike' thingy... Take a look at the tech forum... and of course the minor detail of having waay to much time on their hands. |
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Just felt this was a bit over the top. There are a lot of ways to get to 60K; likewise, there are a lot of ways to get three games in a day. My first three Maso games were all filed the same day, for instance, as I didn't have Internet access on a 10-day business trip, but DID have my laptop to play the game.
I respect RB's decision to avoid tactics smelling of "cheese," but you're starting to drift into "our rules vs. everyone else's rules" territory here. Assuming that other players MUST be using cheese to get to 60K is a wee bit judgmental, as is assuming that a given strategy is being used just because it's gotten a bit of press.
I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything here. But just as an observation, becoming a "top player" takes a lot of time and effort, while using ethics as a club takes very little.
I'm starting to get into the succession game, and the self-imposed house rules, while new for me, add some new dimensions. But turning those rules around to dismiss somebody else's accomplishments...
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sAY tHOSE sHEILA'S aT g.R.O.S.S aRE hAV'EN a bBQ ,pISS uP (aLL gROG sUPPLIED) fEEL fREE tA iNVITE yASELF...
  
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My apologies Sam and to anyone else who may have been offended, I was reading through the thread again, just before seeing your post and realized the same thing. And it was not meant as a critique of players although it probably did seem that way.
Unfortunately there is no edit on old posts.
[Message Edited]
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#46
by Citizen Sirian - 2/6/2004 2:13:46 PM
| Assuming that other players MUST be using cheese to get to 60K is a wee bit judgmental, as is assuming that a given strategy is being used just because it's gotten a bit of press. |
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You're right about this, Ben. However, submitting three 60k scores in one day was (I believe you said) the trigger for the comments. And again, you are right, this could be a case where someone completed games but did not submit them right away, or that they were playing several games concurrently and finished three on the same day. Both of these cases, which Walker's comments did not account for, would mean the games actually took longer than the report times would indicate. And if so, then the comments might not apply as stated.
HOWEVER, if in fact three 60k games were played in one day, then Walker has it right. That's somebody playing through the fastest/easiest settings, and in the view of RB gaming philosophy, that's not much of an accomplishment, regardless of what the score claims.
For anybody to pretend that a two-hour romp to a crushing victory is as much of an undertaking as a tightly contested game that needs five or ten times as much work to pull out... We see that as a case of the Emperor's New Clothes, so to speak, and some of us here in RB land are not shy about speaking up to point out the emperor is not in fact wearing clothes, that it's just a sham, a skit, a make-believe situation. To some, that's rude, or judgemental. To us, it's calling a spade a spade, and we value that kind of frankness.
| becoming a "top player" takes a lot of time and effort, while using ethics as a club takes very little. |
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A lot of time and effort, surely, but how much talent, how much skill? What kind of performance? If the game allows ways to score highly without having to think, strategize, or cope with adversity, time and effort are the ONLY things being measured, when those shortcuts are used. That's unfortunate, in my view, if the game has the potential to be much more, but isn't realizing it.
Should RB players presume to judge the performance of others? Yes, I believe they should, WITHIN CERTAIN BOUNDARIES. It is our prerogative to judge. Judgement is not always a bad thing. If people are unwilling to make value judgements, to value some things more highly than others, all that is left is a hodgepodge of namby pamby relativism, where there are no grounds upon which to build.
In order to grow, we have to be honest about where we currently stand, so that we can assess what is being done and what could be done differently, what could be improved or transcended.
There's an easy boundary. Easy to draw, easy to see, easy to understand, though perhaps not always easy to stay within. That is to judge the doing of a person, not the being. Confusing the two is unhealthy, in both directions. That is, crossing the line from judging action, behavior, thought and results, to judging the person and who and what they are, that's wrong. But it is equally wrong to shout down the judging of action AS a judging of character and worth.
Walker crossed the line on his end. The "too much time on their hands" remark, for one. That was a cheap shot. He has apologized for it, though, so I hope that covers that issue. The "three 60k games in one day" issue, your points are valid insofar as that may not actually be three games PLAYED in only one day. But Walkers comments, as intended, were only intended to cover cases involving three games played in one day, and in that regard, his judgement is valid.
To be able to play three 60k games in one day is in itself a grand accomplishment. It means somebody has figured out an easy path to top-scoring victory. Doing it once is grand. Doing it over and over to pad the metaverse score is something else. Folks can do that if they like. We don't care. But just because the game attaches a 60k score to a result does not mean RB players will accept that at face value. Our players are encouraged to look beyond that, to examine and evaluate a more accurate assessment than the score alone can offer. For that, I see no need to apologize.
- Sirian
 
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Hacker attacks don't stop the Truth!  Link
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#49
by Citizen Bam_Bam - 2/6/2004 11:32:15 PM
So given the score does not alone offer what you are stating is your objective/aim/goal/etc, I have to assume that no one from RB will submit anymore scores as this will only detract from the real objective?
Oh come now, Hurley. Submitting games is a large part of what the GalCiv metaverse community is about. We have chosen to be a part of the community, so just because we look beyond the scoring to more of the gameplay does not mean that we will not submit. We choose to exist within the Metaverse structure, even if it does not meet all of our needs.
[begin RB soapbox rant]
I have to admit that my last game was a bloody easy 60k. I got an incredible start with no Cntl-N, and just cruised my way to a 31 terror star salute, with 10k or so left in the bank even after all those terror starts. It was fun, an my only 60k to date. Not even close to my most fun/exciting game, or the performance of which I am the most proud. Might even have a story to post about that soon .
It is very hard to judge how we value gameplay/reporting without an active tournament. You can get some taste for it in the succession games, but it does not completely hit the mark. If you are familiar with Civ3, check out the RBCiv Epics tournament series. Link The reports and discussion of gaming gives a feel to our mentality. Heck, if you know Diablo/DiabloII, check out the original Realms Beyond. Link
We seek challenge through variety. I hope that Sirian has the energy left in this game (after the expansion) to start a GalCiv tournament, and if not, then others of us may do so. I have to admit that I do not have the same creativity and experience for creating tournament settings (have yet to sponsor an epic), but I do have other skills that could help the cause.
Despite many who have laid the tag--we are not elitist. We take a very tough look at our (and others) gaming. We face facts brutally, and do not shun from stating when tactics are exploitive or too strong for effective game balance. We also do not shy away from stating that victories that rely on those tactics do not merit the same praise as those that do not. That is probably where we hit the most nerves. Most, if not all of us, are willing to take constructive criticism of our gaming (we probably are our own harshest critics) in the interest of become better players. Our egos in this matter are small. Because we are used to an environment of (sometimes) harsh review of our play, we are quick to point out things to non-RB folks who may not be used to that approach. That's the way we are. We do try to keep the criticism to the game. How people play their games is about how they play the game--not about who they are. If we cross the line into personal attack--you will find we hold our own accountable.
[end soapbox]
Yep, more rambling, but it's time of the rest of us RB types to write more about who we are.
 
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