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Raven's Claw (The Galactic Guardians Empire Thread)
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Okay this is the last time i'm going to talk about this i'm sure you weyrleader are as tired of discussing it as I am 
I think that Frogboy said that the games was the same, but he did not elaborate on what was the same. In another post he said that the "score" was the same and the context did not imply that this was the score you get for playing, i.e. 60K, but a score that identified the game and each game would be different. |
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here are some quotes of what he has said:
| As for removed scores, we had our Metaverse moderators go through the data in the submitted games and penalize players who somehow figured out a way to submit the same game multiple times. |
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okay from this we get that there are people who have submited the same game multiple times.
| The duplicate games we're talking about are where someone has, we believe, modified the actual file on disk (or as it's being transmitted) to make the database think they are two different games. |
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okay so in order to do the above one must modify the file so that the two games seem differen't
| Given that GalCiv (base game certainly) has random maps, the odds of two games having identical maps are about zero. |
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frogboy tells us this about the game, keeping in mind he should probably know the way the game works more intimately than anyone, the odds of geting the same map is 0
| Each map played with these criteria would look similar, even if not identical. Were in fact, the maps identical, or did they just seem to be very much the same? Was every pattern in each sector compared and verified that they were all identical? I could easily see most, but not necessarily all, sectors being indentical. |
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you asked this of him
so you ask if it's possibly that he plays them so similarly they seem to be the same, keep in mind though this is not a valid theory since a lot of players including myself play almost identically each time with variations depending on what the ai's do, yet not all those people seemed to be suspect.
| suffice to say you will nto get the exact same galaxy twice. And yes, we saw identical values. |
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to which frogboy responded to you, that the games didn't just seem similar but were identical
This is what Frogboy has implied some have done.
You can only post the map the once. If you submitted the same map again you would just overwright the original posted score. If you wish to post scores to the metaverse you need to submit new games each time using new maps. Do not alter the savegame as this appears to have been the case for the players in question. |
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you said this is what frogboy has implied which seems quite reasonable
| According to the Metaverse auditors, there were a number of top ranked players who had figured out a way to submit multiple entries for what was essentially the same game. We don't know precisely how they did this (hex editor, decompiler, etc.) but the only things that would appear different in the game were the gameID and sometimes the first researched tech. Otherwise, it was still the same map, the same enemies, the same everything. |
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so we know at least the map and the enemies were in the same places, although to your credit this does leave room to believe all he did was reuse a really awesome map but actually played it each time
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okay so recap of what we know from this:
1. people have submitted the same game mulitple times
2. to do that we must modify the save file to make it look differen't
3. the chance of getting the same map twice is much to high to leave room for multiple instances maybe once but not over and over again. (although i once got 7 flushes in a 5 person poker game each flush all hearts so maybe the odds aren't everything  )
4. playing identically the same way over and over produces similar but not identical values.
5. the map and the enemies at least were in the same spots, could mean he used the same map over but did in fact play it.
anyway, i leave you to make your own inclusions, i hope there's no hard feelings weyr leader, i really hope if your right that one day loth is exaunerated, maybe you'll make it happen with your tenacity
and so i exit this discussion with a bang, honor not cheating!
        
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New best score. how do you make the pic and quote show in your not yor pop up view of Someone score? Why? I do not know how this stuff works But why did they delete loth's score and kick him off.
This is my first time having the top post neat.
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Lothmorg and renegade were removed from the meta because they have been accused of cheating, that is submitting the same game over and over again, by hacking into it, you can catch up on events by reading the last 5 pages of ravens claw, the halls of the guardians (as i understand it) and finally, these two threads :
 Link
Link
btw congrats on getting the top of the page i almost got it on accident! 
[Message Edited]
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I didn't want to post ever again, but I want to tell you one thing and also clarify another, I am a computer nerd, I can't hack the key lock of my house if my life depended on it. So to tell what happened, I didn't duplicated any game, the second thing is, yes I found a loophole in stardock strategy, I created a political party with special mods that gave me some boost at the beginning of the game and I used that for my advantage, but none of those games were flagged, so I kept using that loophole for my advantage, now if those game were flagged in the beginning how come it ddn't report them as anomalous? So if the games went thru, then Stardock doesnot have any right to expell me or Lothmorg for just using a tactic that is cheesie but not cheating. You know what bothers me the most the ineficience of Stardock. If they had not forced everyone who wanted to get a good score into the MASOVERSE, this will never would have happened. If evry single point you earn will be added into your score I would never had played Massochistic level. So to get things straight I didnot submit multiple games using the same game, all my games are diffderent and if Stardock is honest enough they will admit that, also you are forgetting one detail, Stardock allows you to submit the same game twice (only twice), if you try to submitt the same game multiple times it will not be counted because has the same ID, so the argument about the same game submmited multiple times doesnot hold water!!!! Now if they want to make an example out of us for using cheesie tactics then that is another thing. The last thing I have to say is that I will NOT renew my Drengin.net membership and thAT IS A LOST FOR THEM, NOT FOR ME,if they keep this attitude of policing, many other players are going to leave also and their revenue is the one that is going to suffer. They own this forum but hey are nobody without this community that bought the right by buying the game to be hear and listened and to be respected. For me this is the last statement. Good luck Stardock, thanks for the memories, and rest sure that I WILL NOT BUY ANY PRODUCT MADE BY YOU OR YOUR COMPANIES. 
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Well I am heading off to FL tomorrow for my naval summer training. Sorry I leave at such a bad time. Loth and Renegade, sorry to see you go, I hate to say this, but right now the evidence seems stacked on Stardock's side, I hope if you truly are innocent (and I believe you are) you should say something more on your behalf to convince us even if it won't convince Stardock. Obviously you were doing something more than the normal ultra-cheesiness so you should just come out and say all of it, and let us decide if it is cheating or not.
Once again good luck Guardians, I will be returning July 16th and hope to rejoin all of you in Yor annihilation then. Good luck in straightening all this out while I am gone.
For Honor and Justice!
Semper Fi
   
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| And thanks to the 3rd child for summarizing the two threads in the forum. This is a confusing story and a sad time for the Gal Civ community. |
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no thanks necessary it's what we do, we're diplomats
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Hello everyone.
I'm very glad to see so much support for Lothmorg and Renegade. Both of these people have become much more than mere game players...they are valued members of our community. A community which I have been proud to associate with over the past year. I have said it many times and I will say it again, the Metaverse really has very little to do with Galactic Civilizations. The game was a catalyst which brought people from many countries, backgrounds, ages and experiences together. While we compare our scores and gameplaying strategies, we grew from a simple game discussion forum to a community which cared for each other. Behind the scenes, incredible relationships have grown. Without Stardock knowing, we matured into a self-sufficient entity, not just relying on Galactic Civilizations to fuel our interests but relying on our human nature and free spirit. We've helped each other through sadness, tragedy, hardship and pain. We've applauded successes and smiled when happy events occured. Many of these events were very private and only a few of us know what happened. But many of us did know and are better for our experience.
I believe Lothmorg and Renegade are two of the most honorable people here, whether Stardock verifies that for me or not. I know this not because I've looked at their game files or investigated their data, I know this because I've spent hours talking to them. Some have said that just because we're online, you can't trust anyone to tell the truth. I say the people here have spent enough time to know when someone is not being truthful.
I have been a strong supporter of Brad and the rest of Stardock ever since I've been here. The decisions of the past couple of days won't drive me to stop playing the game or enjoying other titles which they have released. I am extremely disappointed that two friends have essentially been deleted, but nothing I can do will change any decision brought down. I'm not saying I'm going to be playing the game as much as I have been, because frankly this episode has caused me to lost much of my interest right now. But I still enjoy the game. Moreover, I still enjoy this community. Nothing Stardock does will ever make me feel any differently about this place...this haven for gamers who talk about much more than the game.
I hope for everyone's sake that Loth and Renegade don't disappear forever. Though their scores were eliminated, their presence is still important to us all.
Loth: as a member of the Galactic Guardians, you are indeed a valuable asset to us, whether your scores are there or not. Please continue to hang out and talk with us...even if you don't play the game anymore (and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't).
To the rest of the Galactic Guardians: your decisions on your futures rest within you. I thank you for your participation and comraderie which we have shared. If you feel like moving on, I respect your decisions. If you feel like staying, there will be nowhere else you will be welcomed more.
Finally, I want to reiterate how important I feel our motto is to us. For Honor and Justice might seem to many to be just a motto, but it means much more to us. We don't take the accusations of cheating lightly nor do we feel that justice has been served. In the end, as in real life, we all have nothing more than our honor. Material things are mere trinkets, but personal dignity and honor are eternal. Continue to stand tall and hold your head high, Guardians.
     
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Exactly what one would expect from the leader of an empire well said theoden
i knew there was a reason you worked for the new york times
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| Material things are mere trinkets, but personal dignity and honor are eternal. Continue to stand tall and hold your head high, Guardians. |
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And as these words thundered about the room, the Knights and members of the Galactic Guardians raised a mighty cheer. Nothing shall stand before them!
For HONOR!!
For JUSTICE!!
[Message Edited]
  
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while the lone diplomats standing in the corner watching the procession, quietly sips at his drink and echoes the motto under his breath.
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Copyright 1995-2025 Stardock Corporation. All rights reservered.
Site created by Pixtudio and Stardock, designed by Pixtudio.
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I do not know how this stuff works But why did they delete loth's score and kick him off.
