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Inter-Empire Political Discussion Thread
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Since it has become a trend lately, I think its time we had a place to put it all. Feel free to discuss all the juicy political issues you want in this thread, this is where it can make its home from now on.
P.S.
All you junior politicians be sure and get the Political Machine  Link from Stardock this summer!!   
       
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I stand unwavering from my position - "less filling".
     
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I'm sure you'd make a good canidate in certain parts of a certain beer garden containing country... 
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Indeed I would.
So tell me, wee puppet, how did this get stickied so fast? Was it the recent you-know-what discussion in the you-know-which thread? 
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The politics of free advertising... why yes, that is related to American political campaigns, isn't it? That's why I say, "everything is politics!"
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Choose Your Own Adventure Booze Raid
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
The space pirates take you to a secret auction house. All sorts of alien species are up for sale. When it’s your turn, two men dressed as clerics bid 20 credits on you and win. Upon closer inspection, you recognize their clothing. They’re clerics from Scowbo II. What do you do?
a) You resign yourself to what appears to be an unavoidable fate. Off to Scowbo II. Go to post #205 in THE STARDOCK FANCLUB thread.
b) As the clerics switch you over to their shackles, you make a run for it! Dodging through the crowd, you spot a corvette that’s about to take off. Go to post #50 in the “Forget about those sissy empires!” thread.
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#13
by Veteran Gerakken - 4/7/2004 6:01:54 PM
You know, it is high time I actually put this thread to use. I know I am treading into dangerous territory, but that is what this thread was for, right? Besides, I have this burning curiousity. This question is primarily to Renegade because it is based on something he posted over in the Fellowship thread a couple of days ago and he his personal experiences, but anyone feel free to wade on in. Anyway:
| This next election is going to be a tough one, I don't like for Bush to loose it, but Iraq is like a bad spell on his back, over 600 American soldiers killed over there and the number keeps growing, it is time to bring our soldiers back home and let the Iraquies to take care of their land, why do we need our best people to die over there? The time has come to stop the massacre of American soldiers. I learned way back in my youth that if you are not willing to defend yourself don't expect anyone to do it for you. |
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Then is Cuba worth liberating one day with the lives of American troops if the people there cannot do it themselves, or does anyone living in parts of the world still dominated by warlords, dictators, and other types of repressive governments condemned to their fates unless they somehow make it to the USA or countries more accomodating to their desires in life? I am curious as to how far the non-intervention policy you seem to advocate for Iraq goes.
For the record, I did not actively oppose the war in Iraq, but I did not see any real need for it anyhow. I thought Saddam was already in a pretty tight pickle and could only hurt his own people so long as the sanctions stayed in place. So there is no pro/anti Bush agenda here on my part right now. Just an honest question about how far do we Americans go in a world with many brutal regimes, some of which we choose to deal with because it suits our interests, and some we seem to gladly ignore because they do not.
   
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Well, you will have three viewpoints mainly.
You will have those gloriously deluded fools who believe that it is our right to exterminate anyone who is destructive of their own people, and we as a free country of the world have the right to dictate to somebody else what their lives should be.
You will also have those gloriously deluded fools who believe that these destructive individuals will never pose a threat to us, and we should let them take their little destructive regimes to the brink where eventually they will threaten the rest of the world, in which case this field usually turns into the first.
And then you have the moderates, who I hope outnumber both of the above groups combined. These people judge on a need-to-judge basis. But while this group probably should have the biggest support, often the people will agree with their politicians who decide who is a threat and who is not. From this, a group of the American people, I have no idea what percentage, decided that Iraq was a threat because Bush said it was. But the question I ask is that is North Korea not more of a threat because we know NK has nuclear weapons? And also, Iraq's weapons we know are now just a ruse. But I digress...
Now, I am in the group that is moderate. I beleive that we should eliminate anyone who is a threat. This includes NK and Iran, the only clearly defined threats that the administration has defined (sorry American administration) and those who I see as a silent threat, which I keep as Israel and China. These countries I see as a true threat, because the administration supports them, and therefore ignores what would otherwise be fatal offenses in an non-allied group.
Just my 2BC.
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But Israel has about 100 undeclared nuclear weapons, it is believed, and also they freely commit terror attacks against the Palaistanian population with our backing that they are doing good by killing the civilians they oppress. That is just my opinion though.
Those helicopters were to defend against Egyptian invasion, not to kill civilians.
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I usually do not step up to discussions on this, but does anyone remember what started this whole thing?
It was the tremendous loss of life during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. It was shortly decided that we, as Americans, would not tolerate it anymore, and declared a war on terrorists and the countries that supported them.
To say that we don't belong there is disrepecting the memory of all those killed in those attacks.
Please remember that.
I'll step off my soapbox now.
[Message Edited]
 
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I am sorry if I came across as that Lothmorg. I know you are a veteran, and I respect your opinion. I never meant to offend with my post. I do not intend to disrespect.
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OK, I'll start this post with the disclaimer that I do not wish to offend anyone, and that I fully sympathise with anyone affected by the events of 9/11/2001.
The thing that spurred the American nation into action against terrorism was, indeed, the attack on the WTS. There has IMO never been a more horrific terrorist act anywhere in the world, doubly so due to the live media coverage of the event.
I am also a man with 12+ years military service. It is hard for me to accept that for the entire duration of that service in the UK military, terrorist attacks were happening against UK military and civilian targets that went largely unreported in the world media, and in some case were proven to be backed by money raised in the USA, and elsewhere. I refer of course to the Provisional IRA campaign.
I'm afraid to say that it took an event of the magnitude of 9/11 to bring home the devastating effect terrorism could have on innocent communities and bring an end to that funding.
Before you flame me for this post, please consider that although the IRA always claimed they were not terrorists and were in fact conducting "a war against British oppression" - something most of the world would sympathise with, as we undoubtedly were a very oppressive nation in the past - as soon as any IRA active service unit was engaged and destroyed by UK military forces, they immediately resorted to action through civilian courts in an attempt to gain compensation for the "unlawful" killing of said terrorists.
For the record, I do not personally disagree with the war in Iraq, but the reasons given by our government for going to war were completely superficial, and subsequent inquiries just stink of "cover-up".
    
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No need to be sorry. I just don't want everyone to forget the people that lost their lives in that attack.
You have an opinion and you are entitled to it. Don't be sorry for what you believe.
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#21
by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/7/2004 9:43:16 PM
| OK, I'll start this post with the disclaimer that I do not wish to offend anyone, and that I fully sympathise with anyone affected by the events of 9/11/2001. |
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Me too
| But Israel has about 100 undeclared nuclear weapons |
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I think only fifty are usable, still nukes I know but half the number and lets be honest they are all that stand in the way of the annihilation of Israel.
| It was shortly decided that we, as Americans, would not tolerate it anymore, and declared a war on terrorists and the countries that supported them. |
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I completely agree that terrorism is wrong. It should be noted though that the west has, does and will continue to support terrorists so long as their aims are convergent with ours. We've found it a useful method of destabilising troublesome countries without the need for commiting our own military forces with the ensuing drain on civil morale, cash and resources. Its been part of our diplomatic toolkit for years, unfortunately. Perhaps now we have had a taste of our own medicine we will stop administering it to others.
| but the reasons given by our government for going to war were completely superficial, and subsequent inquiries just stink of "cover-up". |
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Completely agree with you magnumaniac, our government has been completely incompetent as have our review processes. About the only part of our government that delivers consistently good results IS the army and they should be praised for their courage and valour. On this point I feel that the attitude of our press has been less than brilliant, whether they supported the war or not their support for our troops should be 100%. They should go into battle knowing their country is behind them.
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You know, before you completely denounce terrorism, (I am not saying support it) think of how America was formed. Wasn't the Boston Tea Party terrorism? Isn't armed revolt against a ruling power, and destruction of its property terrorism?
Interesting to think about. The whole American Revolution wasn't terrorism, but there were vestiges of it all around.
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| Then is Cuba worth liberating one day with the lives of American troops if the people there cannot do it themselves, or does anyone living in parts of the world still dominated by warlords, dictators, and other types of repressive governments condemned to their fates unless they somehow make it to the USA or countries more accomodating to their desires in life? I am curious as to how far the non-intervention policy you seem to advocate for Iraq goes. |
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The situation in Cuba is very similar to the one in Iraq, the only difference is that Cubans are not muslim, there is not muslims in Cuba as a political movement or religious.
The Cuban people in their majority are pro-american, there are certain things about Cuba that are different from Iraq.
1-Cuban people don't have access to any type of weapons, the government has control over all of them
2-Almost 4 million of Cuban live here in USA, so direct invasion from USA to Cuba will have the support of many Cubans here that want to go over there (Cuba) to take Fidel out of power, the american troops will not be the ones going first.
3-Inside Cuba there is a strong movement against Fidel, and as soon as they know that a big force is coming they could help to locate those who still support Fidel.
4-I oppose to a american intervention in Cuba, Fidel doesnot have that many more years left and after he dies, Cuba will change.
5-I am right now an American citizen, so my motherland now is not longer Cuba but USA. The way the USA received me, treated me and helped me have made a huge impact in my life, to the point that if any day I am called to serve in any front, I will answer yes.
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