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Do you still think GalCiv 1 is fun even with GalCiv II out?

758 votes

1- Yes

2- No

Inter-Empire Political Discussion Thread

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#75 by Veteran Disciple777 - 4/8/2004 2:28:45 PM

Marriage is commonly defined as a partnership between two members of opposite sex known as husband and wife.

From Encarta

#76 by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/8/2004 2:28:55 PM

No disagreement here on that definiton of marriage. Should the state not recognise homosexual unions and give them the same rights as heterosexual couples with regard to the law? If not why not?

#77 by Veteran Disciple777 - 4/8/2004 2:29:30 PM

So looks like the Britons agreed with me, or at leats they did it in the 14th century.

#78 by Veteran the 3rd child - 4/8/2004 2:34:03 PM

*sigh* renegade your quickly not making this fun, as everything anyone is saying, and i don't mean in regards to the issue is going over your head, it looks like you won't be happy unless everyone agrees with you completley and with he same devotion.

I move that we close this topic.

#79 by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/8/2004 2:35:46 PM

or at leats they did it in the 14th century

As I remember my history lessons Britons of the fourteenth century also thought:

Women should not be allowed to disagree with men

Washing was unhealthy and considered unholy, the church even championed Elizabeth I on the fact that she only washed twice a year

People with illnesses flogged themselves to repent their sins in the eyes of god, which created open wounds and caused further infection

Thought the Earth was flat

Believed in Wizards, Witches, Trolls, Daemons, Elves, Orcs.......

#80 by Veteran Disciple777 - 4/8/2004 2:37:46 PM

ould the state not recognise homosexual unions and give them the same rights as heterosexual couples with regard to the law? If not why not?

Your question doesnot make sense.

Just to try to explain a little bit more

Black is a color
White is a color

Now I come and say that black is not longer a color but a drink.

Now the whole society is going to change the concept of black being a color because few people got together and decided that black is not longer a color but a drink.

Is that insane or not?

Well is the same with marriage, marriage is the union between a man and a woman.

Now let me ask you something, will you also agree that if a brother wants to marry his brother is that OK too? or if a mother wants to marry her daughter that is OK too? or if a father wants to marry his son, that is OK too?

Why not? they just want to be recognized and protected by the law according with your opinion.

#81 by Veteran Disciple777 - 4/8/2004 2:39:24 PM

Or the best case scenario, I want to marry myself. Will that be also consider an option according with your liberal ideas???

#82 by Veteran the 3rd child - 4/8/2004 2:42:12 PM

#79 by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/8/2004 2:35:46 PM or at leats they did it in the 14th centuryAs I remember my history lessons Britons of the fourteenth century also thought:Women should not be allowed to disagree with menWashing was unhealthy and considered unholy, the church even championed Elizabeth I on the fact that she only washed twice a yearPeople with illnesses flogged themselves to repent their sins in the eyes of god, which created open wounds and caused further infectionThought the Earth was flatBelieved in Wizards, Witches, Trolls, Daemons, Elves, Orcs.......

some people still do, exar...

#83 by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/8/2004 2:42:39 PM

Your question doesnot make sense

My question does make sense as you proved by trying to answer it.

Now let me ask you something, will you also agree that if a brother wants to marry his brother is that OK too? or if a mother wants to marry her daughter that is OK too? or if a father wants to marry his son, that is OK too?

Trying to divert away from the topic does not answer the question. Why should two people who build a life together not be recognised by the state as such? I'm not saying marriage as you seem to think I am, that is a religous matter, what I am arguing in favour of is recognition and acceptance of that relationship.

#84 by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/8/2004 2:43:09 PM

some people still do, exar...

#85 by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/8/2004 2:43:50 PM

Will that be also consider an option according with your liberal ideas???

I'm not liberal, by most people I am considered an extreme conservative.

#86 by Citizen Bam_Bam - 4/8/2004 2:45:00 PM

This whole debate is comical. I suspect that half of the religious and gutteral reaction to gay "marriage" is that the specific word "marriage" is applied to it. Your use of an online published definition only proves this point. The gay community wants to latch onto the term "marriage" as a further push of their lifestyle into the mainstream, while those who hold this term as "sacred" (not in the literal sense) want to keep it for themselves. Funny thing is--most of the state laws that specifically forbid marriage between persons of the same sex were written in the last 10-15 years...

#87 by Veteran Terl - 4/8/2004 2:46:20 PM

Should the state not recognise homosexual unions and give them the same rights as heterosexual couples with regard to the law? If not why not?

Renegade: Though I agree with you philosphically and theologically the difficulty in the application here is that it boils down to issues on morality. This is one area where legislation fails.

Now, speaking only to the areas of law, which, as BamBam has pointed out are areas for the state to decide, I would agree that some concessions need to be made. This is a difficult issue in our country as it was originally founded with traditional judeo-christian values. The framers of our constitution have encouraged the separation of church and state and this factor means the laws will be structured to fairness.

Though I have the same biblical beliefs as you do Renegade, I do feel there should be equity in the treatment of individuals. I disagree completely with the idea of same sex marriage though I would agree with a civil union so that proper benefits can then follow (it is more than health insurance, it effects inheritance rights etc). While I may disagree philosophically and theologically with homosexuality, I still think there should be equal, fair, and impartial treatment for all under the law.

#88 by Citizen Bam_Bam - 4/8/2004 2:55:04 PM

Terl--that's getting to the point of my last post. The two sides cannot reconcile because the homosexual community's most vocal activists will not be satisfied with anything less than allowing gay MARRIAGE--civil unions not good enough (they throw out the seperate but equal flag). The other side is so wedded (no pun intended) to the "sanctity" of the word "marriage" being solely between man and woman. The two sides are arguing points akin to the whole abortion debate. Not going to be solved.

What's missing is the push to recognize the importance of equal protection for life partners. The sides are too interested in proving each other wrong or damning the other to focus on crafting something that addresses the real issue of providing equivalent treatment of (intended (since divorce is allowed)) life-long partners.

#89 by Veteran Terl - 4/8/2004 3:07:28 PM

What's missing is the push to recognize the importance of equal protection for life partners. The sides are too interested in proving each other wrong or damning the other to focus on crafting something that addresses the real issue of providing equivalent treatment of (intended (since divorce is allowed)) life-long partners.

Very true, Bam Bam. I agree, the argument is focused on the word "marriage" and that is where I get hung up myself. As a christian, I agree with the biblical discussion that Renegade has been making. However, I also see a very strong need to ensure that same sex couples have the same legal rights normally given to married couples. Right now they do not have the rights to make decisions on behalf of their life partner in medical situations, have no inherent inheritance rights, and so much more.

I fear it can become a very protracted battle unless some concessions are made on all sides.

#90 by Veteran Disciple777 - 4/8/2004 3:09:39 PM

Why don you read what you are writing you keep talking about life partners, there is only one kind of life partners a man and a woman, that is the only life partners that God intended from the beginning, stop calling it a life partners and call it an union between a man and a woman. That is what is wrong, we are trying to make friends with everyone, we are trying to not step in anyone's toes for the fear or hurting people's feelings. Life partners is the union between a man and a woman, blessed by God under holy matrimony. God created Adam and Eve, no Adam and Steve.

#91 by Veteran Disciple777 - 4/8/2004 3:12:59 PM

Quotes from different Bibles

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

`And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

"'You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman. That is detestible.
Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info

cum masculo non commisceberis coitu femineo quia abominatio est
Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

#92 by Veteran Disciple777 - 4/8/2004 3:15:08 PM

This is the punishment that the Old Testament gave to homosexuals

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

That shows that God condemns homosexuality.

#93 by Veteran the 3rd child - 4/8/2004 3:15:35 PM

God created Adam and Eve, no Adam and Steve.

i think evil steve might take offense to that renegade

#94 by Veteran Terl - 4/8/2004 3:15:44 PM

So then: Because you feel they are wrong morally you would then deny them the right to have medical coverage, to inherit the other's property in the case of death, to deny them the right to make medical decisions on behalf of an injured partner. In other words, since you see them as sinners, you would punish them yourself?

#95 by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/8/2004 3:20:25 PM

That is what is wrong, we are trying to make friends with everyone

No we're not.

What we are trying to say is that same sex couples should have the same LEGAL protection from the state as heterosexual couples.

God created Adam and Eve, no Adam and Steve.

Slogans are for marketing, not serious debate. Sounds pretty but theres no real substance to it.

that is the only life partners that God intended from the beginning

Well like it or not homosexual couples exist and until the western democracies become religous states they should afford the same protections and rights to their people.

#96 by Veteran Primipilus Alexus - 4/8/2004 3:23:06 PM

Renegade:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

First take the log out of your eye before trying to get the speck of dust out of your brother's.

Remember not everyone shares your belief system, church and state need to be considered seperately - what is wrong for one is not necessarily wrong for the other.

In this country homosexuality used to be illegal. Then they allowed it between over 25s, then later, over 21's. It's now down to 18, there's talk of it going down to 16. I'm intending to emigrate before it is made compulsory

Alex

[Message Edited]

#97 by Veteran Terl - 4/8/2004 3:26:13 PM

@Renegade A man comes to your door and says "I am starving, do you have any food I may eat. By the way I am a homosexual." Do you feed him?

If so, why not give him other rights afforded to others? If it is against God's Word is that not for God to deal with? Does He not say that vengence is His?

Also, as a Christian you are taught to hate the sin but love the sinner.... I would say give them their rights. If you disagree with the lifestyle debate it....but...don't deny basic rights

[Message Edited]

#98 by Veteran Disciple777 - 4/8/2004 3:36:37 PM

I am at peace with myself and with my God, giving the homosexuals the blessing of marriage is against God and whoever agrees with them, must really do a soul search. Every individual in this society is entitled to medical coverage if you pay your insurance, if you want to give somebody else your property when you die, you write a will.

The Bible is very clear and Jesus was very firm when he said

REVELATION 22:18-21 18 FOR I TESTIFY TO EVERYONE WHO HEARS THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK: IF ANYONE ADDS TO THESE THINGS, GOD WILL ADD TO HIM THE PLAGUES THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK; 19 AND IF ANYONE TAKES AWAY FROM THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THIS PROPHECY, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE, FROM THE HOLY CITY, AND FROM THE THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. 20 HE WHO TESTIFIES TO THESE THINGS SAYS, "SURELY I AM COMING QUICKLY." AMEN. EVEN SO, COME, LORD JESUS! 21 THE GRACE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST BE WITH YOU ALL. AMEN. (NKJV)

So if you want to twist, change, deny or ignore God's word that is your own wrongdoing, but don't force down the throat of the Christians the homosexual agenda about marriage, they don't want to be recognized as a couple, they want to be MARRIED. Don't be fool by their tears, they don't want to be accepted as a couple, they want to be MARRIED as a man an a woman do. That is the bottom line.

#99 by Citizen Exar Kuun - 4/8/2004 3:39:34 PM

We are not talking about religous marriage we are talking about the rights afforded to couples by the state: there is a difference.

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