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Galactic Civilizations II concept thread
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NO multplayer ! (at least don't make it central feature it can be as "addition" but shouldn't reduce single player to
multiplayer game agains computer oponent - we need storyline ! )
Also racial bonuses can be fun .
   
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#52
by Citizen Kamara - 8/14/2004 3:03:33 AM
multi-player by LAN or IP/Internet!
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My personal wishlist:
Several different playable races with one or two being vastly superior. Make the best race to play a parasitic race that also happens to be the coolest.
An incomprehensible interface that manages to be both high budget and ugly.
An AI that is composed of five "and/or" logic statements. Or at least one that seems to be so.
An immense amount of hype for the game.
Change the name of the company from "Stardock" to "FastPreciousMetal"
Let Atari dictate the design, implementation, and the patching.
If you do that, I think you'll have a winner on your hands.
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#56
by Citizen Elrikk - 8/18/2004 10:42:57 PM
Citizen moodgiesanta,
. . . somewhere, I vaguely hear the sounds of 3 cows singing . . .
Elrikk 
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so he WANTS an incomprehesible, high budget and ugly interface. must be why he WANTS atari to do it...
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#58
by Citizen b c - 8/22/2004 3:22:18 AM
Here's my suggestions
1) the ability to shadow or follow an enemy ship, without attacking it
2) the ability to auto-attack only ship types you can specify
3) a button that lets you launch transports either full (for invasion or troop movement) or empty (for relocation)
4) when structuring diplomacy deals, if you get turned down, a button that will load up your exact offer so you can tweak it or ask for less. having to rebuild a complex deal is tough just to lower your price a little
5) a ship class akin to a bomber which can either kill population or soften up a planet without having to waste the lives to troops in an "invasion thwarted" scenario. sometimes i like to cut a planet's population in half to pursuade an AI.
6) for AI's that actually build terror stars, to use them. I have yet to see one actually blow up a system.
7) more complex "fleeting" capabilites, instead of just piling them up, being able to set up attacking "ranks" or orders.
8) super combat transports with higher troop carrying capabilities
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| 4) when structuring diplomacy deals, if you get turned down, a button that will load up your exact offer so you can tweak it or ask for less. having to rebuild a complex deal is tough just to lower your price a little |
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You can already tweak deals quite easily. If the text in the deal you propose appears yellow, the AI will not accept it, and if the text appears in green, the AI will accept it. By using the mouse wheel you can adjust BC or influnce points until you find the "sweet spot" where text changes color; or you can add or remove items to trade until you find best deal by watching text color.
           
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Enough of this boring linear technology research. Some research should only be triggered or enhanced by certain events. For instance, it is only when you have to do a battle in space, that your researchers begin to get an idea about increased attack or defense. Or it doesn't occur to your researchers to work out how to terraform a certain type of planet (ie barren) until you discover such a planet. Each encounter with other races, planets or other incidents could prompt the beginnings of new research.
Also, what about a Fog of War in space? I mean, you should not even be able to see the planets beyond the sensor level of your ships. So unexplored space is completely in a shroud. No known whereabouts of unexplored planets on the map.
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i believe that the atmosphere most be reworked and revamped. The game is amazingly fun with various wonderful concepts borrwed from some of the greatest titles, (like alpha centauri, moo2) ever to grace the market but in some ways it feels like it lacks a soul . (just hear me out). The game is so awfully sterile and sometimes it feels like a spreadsheet. I never saw another face, or felt there was another being at the other end of the line when i was playing the game. Within every game, i saw the same figures, the same cgis, over and over again, under different aligments with different logic systems. And even though theleader,s were radically within each game, it still felt like i was playing against the same person. It felt like i was stuck in the same room with the same 5 kids each and every experience. I have never seen another human being in the game, or another alien from the one single prototype in teh game. For a stragtgey game about space and aliens,a side from the fancy names, cool gizmo and technology, it seems robbed of any alien presence or culture. Or even human culture. IFor a game about the rise of humanity, i found the absence of humanity extremely disturbing. If anyone has ever played Romance of the 3 kingdoms, a strategy game based on the history of the chinese, you would know what i am talking about. There are hundreds of portraits, captains, and various governors and people in your empire, running your government. These captains may rebel, they need to be rewarded and praized and punished. They maybe bribed or killed. It felt like one was actually dealing with subordinates. It actually felt like i was leading an entire empire with my own followers. I wasnt isolated in an ivory tower locked away from the people. The people came through me from the representatives. Its that reason and that reason that i think that galatic civilization may have failed as a space stragety game. To relaly illustrate this example, think moo2, Irelaly liked moo2's option of having captains and governors run your kingdom. Having them give their colonies options and bonuses. It placed a face on these planets and on the ships they commanded. It wasnt just a battle between a few fighter pilots but a battle between the legendary captains of the orions and the antarions. I mean its simple things like that, portraits, faces, that give people a sentimental feel for a game. These captains and governors each have a history a place in history and a reason for being. I think its the reason for being, not having to live in a complete historical vaccum that made romance of the 3 kingdom a very specical game for me. And i think that sentimental feel is what makes a few hours of fun into an forgettable experience. nothign that could be done that allowed the player to make the game his or her own experience asside from random events. Even the events dont seem real or they dont seem to matter or have a lasthing impact. 10 moer clicks and whatever happened happened and ahve little or no bearing on the game. There was nothignthat had a permanent impact. Players dont really have options in this world. Sabotage, espidonage seems to be removed from the players control. I would like to be able to pick sabtoage targets. Sure, it leads to micromanagement but keep in mind, micromanagement can be fun but a player should always have the option to participate. If anyone has ever played Shogun total war, the ability to assasinate enemy leaders, to cause trouble in an opposing empire, was extremely exhilirating. Sabtaoage was fun because i was the one directing it. I know that a game of galactic civilizations' size demands little attention to detail and demands very little micromanagement but i would like to have the option. I think some micromanagement is necesasry to make a game feel like its your game.
just my two cents.
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Improved land battles would be very much appreciated! 
   
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How about a wider array of civilian craft to go with the galactic resourses and ship design. Basic ship componants for a tech level do not take recourses but you upgraded versions that are better do. Ie basic phaser is free but crystal phaser needs resourses to build.
Mining starbases send automated resourse ships to all planets in the galaxy belonging to that civilization automaticly. But other civilizations can send freighters to buy resourses off a starbase like they can make trading routes between planets except you don't have to accept. In return for the resourses the other civilization will pay you money so it can be a profitable enterprise (you set the prices).
In wars mining resources on the other side of the galaxy will do you no good if you cannot defend the routes to your planets. They function exactly like trade routes, if enough resourse ships are destroyed then the route in terminated and the planet cannot use the resource either for abilities or to build ship componants. The only way they can be reopened is if a freighter from that planet opens up a trade route with the starbase at which point resourse ships are sent and the route restarts.
Monopolizing a particular resource gives you an incredible edge as you can then not only ban civs at will but can also charge high prices. Be wary though as excessivly high prices and banning access to a recourse to a civ drasticly hurts relations.
Remember though that overstretching a resources use is never wise so if you are using to much of a resource then building ship componants becomes a lot more expensive as there is difficulty getting hands on it.
 
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What the game really needs is each planet to have a race and a more advanced political system for galciv in general (including leaders and planetery governers) and we need a better planetery invasion system.
Invasions
A planetery invasion would usually last more than one month. In a planetery invasion both sides use the entire population as they do at current. This doesn't mean that the population of the whole planet and the attacking transports actually fight but that they all contribute something their production to the war effort (and could be recruited as soldiers). But both sides have a surrender bar which decreases as they take casualties and is determined by a populations loyalty, courage and morale (race approval rating for attackers). If the defender breaks the planet, the remaining population becomes part ofthe attackers civ. But if the attackers break the attackers are taken prisoner and the transport is held in orbit until peace is declared with that civ (along with it's population).
As a side note, you cannot disband inhabited transports or colony ships only empty ones. If the entire population is destroyed the planet returns to unclaimed status.
Races
Each major and minor civ starts of with a single race. For the player that's the humans. As the player or AI colonises the galaxy all new colonies have the dominant race of the planet from which they came. Early in the game this will most definatly be the race of the homeworld. If you gain control of a planet by any means the planet's race will still be the race that colonised it in the first place. This is permenant there is no way except by massacring the population (which needs you to be evil, the U.P to have legalised xenocide or you not to bound by the laws of the U.P and have a transport full of another race's troops in orbit) that this can be changed. Given time and a high morale the aliens can become as loyal to your civ as your native population though.
The loyalty of the planet (not the morale) determines the initial morale penalty for ruling that planet ie loyalty value becomes dis-loyalty value. If the planet is not of your race existing dis-loyalty is passed over to the new ruler (Apathetic alien populations are easiest to mantain control of). If an alien planet ie not your starting race becomes unhappy then dis-loyalty builds up faster. If an alien planet goes into a revolution it will quickly recreate the former civilization or will defect to it if it exists. Abilities of a race effect the planet whoever rules it.
Disloyalty vs loyalty
Loyalty improves morale and increased by good morale, disloyalty decreases morale and is also also generated by bad morale creating. Hence dis-loyalty creates bad morale which in turn creates dis-loyalty. A miserable planet will normally be satisfied with a brand-new Virtual Reality center but a disloyal population will not. If disloyalty reaches a certain level and the planet is in unrest then the planet will revolt.
Revolutions and galactic movements
If a planet has a revolution then it may do the following.
1.Join an existing civilization
2.Join a galactic movement
3.Restore an extinct civilization
Galactic movements are a unique type of civilization beacause they have no starting race. They are activated by events but to become civilizations they require a revolution. They do have a main race and hence all races are equally loyal to a movement. Due to the effectiveness of indoctrination the movement gives a large positive morale and loyalty bonus in all worlds they control.
Cultural Domination
I would like cultural domination to be far subtler than at present. Basicly instead of the planet just defecting to you the insidious influence saps morale and loyalty. The extent of the influence depends on the difference between the morality of the two civilizations.
For example an isolated Drengin colony is located within the cultural domination of the Altarians. As a result the ideas of goodness are picked up by the Drengin population and hence loyalty to the Drengin homeworld is sapped. The planet joins the fundermentalists as the 'pure good' ideals spread to it. If most the Drengin planets are under Altarian cultural domination then the Drengin will become more and more good as the ideals of love and peace infect their civilization. This doesn't affect human players, they have to change morality themselves or their morale goes down the toilet. If a civ has exactly the same alignment as the culturally dominating civ then it's planets cannot be culturally assimilated but other details like the popularity of political parties is affected. That's how I want culture to affect things, in a much more subtle manner. The only time cultural influence actually causes planets to defect is if they are of that civs race.
Leaders
I'd like there to be real people in the political life of your civ ie all parties have randomly determined leaders chosen from a modifiable list. If an election is lost by a party then the player steps into the new rulers shoes and continues to play. A change on party actually decreases disloyalty (one of the advantages of democracy) while a sytem with no elections is stuck with it whatever happens.
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#68
by Citizen Theldion - 9/7/2004 9:32:39 PM
Call me shallow, but I think it'd be nice to see some planetary specials change the normal planet graphic, like the Precursor "Sacrifice population to improve PQ" artifact special, should it transfer over and be used by whichever civilization on that planet, have a visible bright spot which eventually encompasses the entire planet..or the seismic worms giving "scars" to the landmasses they're on.
And if they do get transfered, maybe have a lil change to some of them, like the PQ artifact... such as them only being able to enhance whatever statistic up to a certain point... so, PQ gets better as population is increased, up to a certain point, then the PQ bonus stays what it is, until the population drops noticeably, at which point the PQ would also drop (less fuel to power the artifact, less results)... this could also apply to the agonizing research podplants (only so many people can live within the radius of the pods' spores)
As for multiplayer, IF it gets implemented, perhaps make it one player per species until an expansion comes out, so the players can understand the limitations and strengths of each race and play against each other and the AI better, and also so the AI can "watch" strategies that work for each race and learn.
Sorry if that was longwinded, heh.
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Goodie-goodie!!!!
It really seems great, but frankly, I believe more in Frog`s sense of WORKING innovation than anyone`s. So even if it seemed wacko, I would still wait and see.
But I just have two comments, one minor and one major:
MINOR: For this cultural map, even better could be done by puting it like in SimCity style, with a scale of color intensity (ex: from little red to completely red). It would thus be a competition of the different alien`s colors 
MAJOR: It seems like GalCiv doesn`t let us direct the society! Here`s an example of model that I wrote which could be simplified or not (second post):
 Link
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Rather than actually gobble up people through culture in the physical sense how about you can enfore a "culturally assimilated" state in a civ if you have enough influence over it's homeworld. Culturally assimilated civs give all their cultural influence to you as they have been indoctrinated into their way of life. Even more cool how about the culturally assimilated civs leaders have different appearance to represent their state. So a culturally assimilated Torian leader wears a Terran alliance teashirt. The homeworld is seen to be the cultural centre of a civilization and defending it against alien culture is essential. For if the homeworld appears alien then the colonies will copy that trend.
By assimilating all civilizations cultrally you could win a cultural victory. If you assimilate a civ then all civs that have also been assimilated by the civ become assimilated by you also. Assimilated civs share the exact moral alignment of their masters and hence have greatly improved relations.
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how about tweaking......
ramifications
the new logistics?
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Things I want in Galciv 2:
1) A true sequel. More than just the original with better graphics and more options/complexity.
2) AI that starts on equal footing with the player. I always thought the AI knowing where good planets were from the start was a cop-out. Put in a good scouting routine in the AI.
3) Total fog of war at the beginning. Stars invisible. After all, the only reason they're shown is for "realism," but wouldn't realism dictate that we could tell what colors they were from the beginning as well?
4) Modular ship design. I know you're already planning this, but for god's sake make it balanced - MOO2 had a good system, but a few weapons were clearly better than others and not compensated with an increase in required space.
5) A personal pet peeve you're almost certain not to implement. THREE DIMENSIONAL GALAXIES. I want a 3-d turn-based space civ game. Is that so wrong? After all, if you're limited to 2d, no matter how much you do, it's never really more than just Civilization with different graphics and interface. Add a third dimension, and it's suddenly a brand new game.
5b) If you're doing 3d galaxies, make the interface easy and intuitive to use. That there's the real kicker, isn't it?
6) Second of the things I suggest that I see NO WAY you'll ever do. Customizable technologies. Want a new ship weapon? Go to an interface, name it ("Green Lasers Mark Three"), assign attributes ("Researching this tech gives your laser-armed ships X% increase in firepower"), and have an equation that figures out how much research is required to finish the task. This concept works for any tech that provides % or set number increases to techs, but special techs ("Stellar Cartography") this wouldn't work for.
 
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| 6) Second of the things I suggest that I see NO WAY you'll ever do. Customizable technologies. Want a new ship weapon? Go to an interface, name it ("Green Lasers Mark Three"), assign attributes ("Researching this tech gives your laser-armed ships X% increase in firepower"), and have an equation that figures out how much research is required to finish the task. This concept works for any tech that provides % or set number increases to techs, but special techs ("Stellar Cartography") this wouldn't work for. |
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What about something more like what they did in MOO2 (not 'exactly like', but 'more like')?
Essentially what I mean is, having researched say 'Combat Lasers', you get to choose how to develop that tech... by researching ONE of: High-Focus Combat Lasers (more damage); Miniturized Combat Lasers (less space); Variable-Frequency Combat Lasers (shield and/or armour penetration), etc.
Those are just rough examples, but I think you get the idea. Having made your choice, you don't get the other options, unless you can steal them (or trade for them) from someone else.
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