Galactic Civilizations: Explanations about some metaverse behaviors

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Do you still think GalCiv 1 is fun even with GalCiv II out?

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Explanations about some metaverse behaviors

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by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 2:24:41 AM

#1 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 9/3/2004 5:46:16 AM

Nicely explained..

One thing that isn't explained clearly with examples is the effect of aging

IE: depending on how many games you actualy have in any block that blocks contribution to your score can make your score actualy Go UP .. or Down depending on how many games you have in any block on a daily bases on when you submit your latest game..

eg: lets say that you have submitted 3 60k games in the newest block all on different days.. and say 5 in the next block.. and 3 games will drop to the next block when you submit a new game..

You will notice that your score may actualy INCREASE because you now only have 2 games in the 30-60 day block and not 5 ..

Sorry I'm no good at maths but I can assure you that I can happen I've seen itr happen to my own scores..

This means that your score IS actualy changing every day even though you havn't actually submitted and games (noticable when a recalc gets done..

Thus your score can actually go up by more than 60,000 when you submit a game if your score game aging is favourable.. but it can also Appear that the lastest game you've submitted didn't score anything.. if your score game aging blocks has any holes in them..

This too has happened to me.. In the end though you ALWAYS get out what you put in.. less 5% every 30 day block.. in the long run.. Which would become apparent if / when Stardock changes the metaverse to TRUE daily calculations on EVERYONES scores every day.. and not just when you submit a game or the metaverse goes through a forced Re-calc..

#2 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 6:39:30 AM

One thing that isn't explained clearly with examples is the effect of aging

Yes, I have limited the explanation to a steady submission rate.

IE: depending on how many games you actualy have in any block that blocks contribution to your score can make your score actualy Go UP .. or Down depending on how many games you have in any block on a daily bases on when you submit your latest game..

Yes. But I prefer talking about blocks movement and keep the "aging" term for the decaying of score (5% per block)

You will notice that your score may actualy INCREASE because you now only have 2 games in the 30-60 day block and not 5 ..

Sorry I'm no good at maths but I can assure you that I can happen I've seen itr happen to my own scores..

Yes, this can happen. But if you experience such behavior, than you experience also big drops: You can't have big increase without big drops. the only exception is for people who have games going into blocks where no game was ever before (like after the first month of submission ... )

I could make a post that show effects due to variable submission rate during month. I have done it many times.

#3 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 6:55:54 AM

Which would become apparent if / when Stardock changes the metaverse to TRUE daily calculations on EVERYONES scores every day

That is a nice idea but it can generate a high instability in the ladder. Maybe a less extrem approach would to have a recalc each week.

#4 by Citizen littlewotts_ - 9/3/2004 7:10:27 AM

Ok, I have switched to a game a week plan, rather than 2-3 a week. This far into my galciv campaign/career, will this adversely affect my score?

#5 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 9/3/2004 7:10:55 AM

I can't see any difference instability wise.. as some people do submit everyday and so their scores get recalculated and aged everyday.. so why not everyones .. it would prodide a truer picture.. I don't vthink its extreme at all.. it happens anyway.. you just don't see it..

#6 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 7:30:33 AM

I can't see any difference instability wise

For people that have a steay submission rate there isn't any.
For people that empty block, we can have rollercoaster in the ladder.
As example, you, J.T.Qwerk, have the following instability:
your last submission is the 08/31/04. If a recalc is made each day without any new games submitted
on the 08/31/04 your score is 799K
on the 09/01/04, 840K
on the 09/02/04, 852K
on the 09/03/04, 884K
on the 09/04/04, 890K
on the 09/05/04, 873K
on the 09/06/04, 874K
on the 09/07/04, 880K
on the 09/08/04, 880K
on the 09/09/04, 888K
on the 09/10/04, 888K
on the 09/11/04, 879K
on the 09/12/04, 861K
on the 09/13/04, 864K
on the 09/14/04, 872K
on the 09/15/04, 872K
on the 09/16/04, 872K
on the 09/17/04, 872K
on the 09/18/04, 872K
on the 09/19/04, 856K
on the 09/20/04, 808K
on the 09/21/04, 809K
on the 09/22/04, 814K
on the 09/23/04, 814K
on the 09/24/04, 814K
on the 09/25/04, 814K
on the 09/26/04, 815K
on the 09/27/04, 810K
on the 09/28/04, 810K
on the 09/29/04, 810K
on the 09/30/04, 810K
on the 10/01/04, 772K
on the 10/02/04, 771K
on the 10/03/04, 802K

#7 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 9/3/2004 7:35:51 AM

you'll notice that your score will appear to decrease more than if you'd have started submitting 4 games in the 30 day block.. but onlu until your 2-3/week games get into the 290+ days block.. then it'll level to the true 5% aging drop..

this is due to the raw total / squareroot(number of games) = average score * squareroot(number of games). because tthe number of games/block will change from 12 down to 4 which would mean that if you submitted 12 games at 60,000 the equation would be

raw total / squareroot(number of games)............. 5% Aging
12*60,000 /sqr root of 12 = 720,000/3.464 = 207,852 :-10,392
4.*60,000/ sqr root of 4. = 240,000/2.000 = 120,000 :- 6,000

your reward is that your score / game is much healther
ie:
at 12 games / month you get 17,321 per game
at 4. games / month you get 30,000 per game

as stated the metaverse rewards those who play to not burn themselves out.. and pace themselves

(I hope I got it right.. someone will correct me if i'm wrong
hopefully)

#8 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 9/3/2004 7:47:41 AM

Thats only a difference of 888k-721k = 167,k

I'm seeing that already...

I just suffered approx (well now quite that much because I submitted 2 games) and went from 13th place down to 24th and back up to 22nd.. I think it makes things clearer.. as opposed to when I posted a 60k game and saw my score drop by about 110,000 .. I'd be able to see that submitting a game didn't give me a negative score.. I'd have seen that my submitted game gave me about 54k in reality.. do you see what i mean.. it may appear to be a rollercoaster.. but people would be able to see that their last submittion didn't cost them points against those who havn't submitted any that 24 hour period.. I do see what your saying.. but I believe that the extra clarity gained would be worth it.. and would even encourage people not to have dead blocks (mine were unavoidable though.. computer problems ;( )

#9 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 7:51:45 AM

do you see what i mean.. it may appear to be a rollercoaster.. but people would be able to see that their last submittion didn't cost them points against those who havn't submitted any that 24 hour period.. I do see what your saying.. but I believe that the extra clarity gained would be worth it..

I have no problem with your point of view. I want to be sure that people understand the cost in the ranking with a daily recalc.

#10 by Citizen Genghis Hank - 9/3/2004 7:58:25 AM

I have a question for the score calc gurus

In another thread on this forum, someone who hasn't played since about July 2003 noted his score dropped to zero. Sure enough, while he had games listed, his total was zero. How could this be if the maximum aging is 35%? Are games over approx 380-390 days dropping completly?

#11 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 9/3/2004 8:02:38 AM

Who was it again... I think it was someone from my empire.. checking now

#12 by Citizen Genghis Hank - 9/3/2004 8:07:33 AM

Shakaar from GROSS

#13 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 8:08:16 AM

you'll notice that your score will appear to decrease more than if you'd have started submitting 4 games in the 30 day block.. but onlu until your 2-3/week games get into the 290+ days block.. then it'll level to the true 5% aging drop..

this is due to the raw total / squareroot(number of games) = average score * squareroot(number of games). because tthe number of games/block will change from 12 down to 4 which would mean that if you submitted 12 games at 60,000 the equation would be
raw total / squareroot(number of games)............. 5% Aging
12*60,000 /sqr root of 12 = 720,000/3.464 = 207,852 :-10,392
4.*60,000/ sqr root of 4. = 240,000/2.000 = 120,000 :- 6,000

your reward is that your score / game is much healther
ie:
at 12 games / month you get 17,321 per game
at 4. games / month you get 30,000 per game

as stated the metaverse rewards those who play to not burn themselves out.. and pace themselves

(I hope I got it right.. someone will correct me if i'm wrong
hopefully)

You got it right: he will advance slower, and even have small drop. But there won't be a really huge drop since there will be always 4 games in his blocks. I have simulate submitting a 60K game each week with his profile, and here are the result :
08/27/04: 876K
09/03/04: 889K
09/10/04: 886K
09/17/04: 884K
09/24/04: 896K
10/01/04: 926K
10/08/04: 926K
10/15/04: 933K
10/22/04: 961K
10/29/04: 955K
11/05/04: 958K
11/12/04: 955K
11/19/04: 969K
11/26/04: 969K
12/03/04: 965K
12/10/04: 977K
12/17/04: 988K
12/24/04: 996K
12/31/04: 1010K

In brief, there is a small price to pay when changing submission rate. In this case, it is acceptable.

Don't forget that new games help to counter act against the 5% aging. And it is easier to do it when not having lots of games that are submitted to this aging

#14 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 8:12:29 AM

If games aren't dropped, he should have 6 614 Mpts.
Now if they are dropped, I don't know the limiting day. For Shakkar, the nearest game is 443 days old

#15 by Citizen littlewotts_ - 9/3/2004 8:16:27 AM

Now, if I play more like 2 games a week, more like every 4 days, will that make my climb to the (ha ha) top quicker?

#16 by Citizen Genghis Hank - 9/3/2004 8:16:59 AM

If games aren't dropped, he should have 6 614 Mpts. Now if they are dropped, I don't know the limiting day. For Shakkar, the nearest game is 443 days old

I think this also explains why some of the retired drop like a rock (like Jaws) when others hang around a while without a recalc (like Mag or Major Dallas). Mag actually pointed something like this out a few months back. I'll see if I can find the thread.

#17 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 9/3/2004 8:23:19 AM

I thought that they had fixed that.. so that it no longer dropped scores... that they remained.. If not then they should.. in the last calc block .. this way there would always be a record of the pioneers of the metaverse ..

#18 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 9/3/2004 8:25:25 AM

ummm... also some dropped because of.. ummm... how can i put it ... suspected / prooved cheating..

#19 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 8:26:55 AM

Jaws has been hit by the recalc and I calculate the value he has. No games were dropped from Jaws record. And I obtain also the correct value for Technician. So it isn't the reason.

Maybe the metaverse has a special processing for people that haven't submitted for more than a year.

#20 by Diplomat Peace Phoenix - 9/3/2004 8:27:46 AM

ummm... also some dropped because of.. ummm... how can i put it ... suspected / prooved cheating..

In this case, he wouldn't have kept his games.

#21 by Diplomat Blue_Steel - 9/3/2004 8:31:27 AM

true.... what empire's are the people in.. and who are they ... I'll see what i can find out

#22 by Citizen littlewotts_ - 9/3/2004 8:37:48 AM

Loth quit our empire. He'd didn't want that load of crap tarnishing us. Mario joined Starfleet.

#23 by Citizen Genghis Hank - 9/3/2004 8:42:49 AM

OK, I found the original discussion. You are correct. it was the 331 day drop issue, which was supposed to be fixed. Maybe Shakaar would get his points back if he submitted another game.

http://www.galciv.com/forum.asp?BID=GF&id=167139

Link

#24 by Citizen littlewotts_ - 9/3/2004 8:45:57 AM

I remember that thread. It seems that a lot of meta recalcs don't affect someone until after they submit one game.

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