I just tried a Maso game tiny. Had a warm relationship with the Altarians and they declared war on me for building a shopping center on a base near their system. They did offer me the choice of surrendering the base but I figured I was toast anyway so I refused.
Then I tried to bribe the Arceans to attack them and they declined flat out.
It's a nasty level. 
 
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#2
by Citizen Ellestar - 5/29/2003 4:52:18 PM
Rush 2 Incredible AI. Then rush minors. Then only 3 genius left with much less number of planets. That's for 'Rare' planets.
 
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#3
by Citizen Franco fx - 5/29/2003 4:54:36 PM
I'm not sure I will ever beat it. The buying star bases strategy is the best idea I have seen. I plan to spend my time at lesser difficulty.
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But what if you're playing against 5 incrediable AIs Ellestar? I actually think it's easier to play with all the AIs at Incredible than some Incredible and some Genius because the Incredible AIs will take over the weaker ones fairly quickly (and then turn on you).
      
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I managed to cream the Alexians with a +1 surveyor before they had defenders in my last game but the rest needed heavier firepower so it was the old frigate rush. They seem to be less willing to buy in cash in the latest version so they were ripe for conquest.
How is buying SBs cheap in 1.04? I only managed to buy a one-module SB by offering up 3 trade goods, a whole host of mid-high techs and lots of cash.
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I don't think I've ever managed a rush without BCs or frigates on an Incredible Major yet. They research deflectors almost immediately and they always seem to have at least one defender before I can Impulse and Transport.
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#13
by Citizen Ellestar - 5/31/2003 11:48:22 AM
| My tiny rare masochistic is with 5 incredibles. |
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My too.
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#15
by Citizen LDiCesare - 6/2/2003 4:46:13 AM
I tried something this morning:
Tiny maso 1.04.
I had 2 planets, class 14 + Soil enhancement = 15, and 19 +SE = 20.
The Drengins invaded, and they got planets of PQ 19 and 26 immediately.
I wonder how that is possible. They hadn't built the Terraformer, so at best they could rush buy Habitat Improvement and have a +7% PQ pick, for a total of +17% over the +10%. Even a +27% from rushbuilt terraforming wouldn't account for such an increase.
Therefore, it seems that at maso, the ai gets a PQ boost. That's interesting, because it means a class 15 planet in their hands will be class 19. You probably don't want to let that happen. I'm interested in seeing if anyone can beat the ai on maso tiny/rare now (they always manage to crank out 4 or 5 constructors, 2 more than I can do with leases, while at the same time outresearching me by 8 techs when I have just researched trade).
 
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The AI had +20PQ on maso for 1.035. Based on your report, this has probably been upped to +40PQ in 1.04. ZaH previously reported the maso bonuses for us by pouring money in espionage in the early game.
It is still winnable by having a good start, playing good alignment, gobbling up minors and rushing frigates.
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#18
by Citizen Def Zep - 6/2/2003 11:44:36 AM
Another strategy I am trying out on Maso (5xIncred) now...Culture-flipping.
The AI does indeed get a +40PQ bonus. Use this to your advantage:
- Allow the AI to colonize your nearby worlds. This will give the planet an immediate base PQ boost.
- Invade 1-2 such worlds with a +1 Hero & 1-2 TR's if at all possible. The AI will usually settle new worlds with only 100-200 pop; a single TR can take them out, and two is guaranteed. (Frequently this isn't possible because either the AI researches Shields and produces enough Defenders/BattleAxes to defend, or you lack a +1 combat bonus for Hero.)
- Get your trade routes working. Use your initial 2 on a Major. If adjacent/between 2 AI's split the routes evenly between them if Torian, Arcean or Altarian (i.e., neutral-good). Use both routes on the Drengin or Yor (i.e., evil). If caught between 1 evil and 1 neutral/good, or between 3+ AI's, pray to the PC gods.
- Negotiate with Minors. The Major AI's will quickly outstrip you in Diplo ability. You will probably not even be able to swap techs with them at all, much less get a good deal. Minors, however, will concentrate on defense. You can generally gain a +10 to +20 diplo skill over them (UT/Diplomacy). Use them to research your combat techs.
- Forget trade goods. You will never complete one before the AI does.
- Build a SB in or adjacent to the target sector. Income is more vital early game than other needs; bulk it up with defense and trade modules. Count on your trade routes to keep your neighbors at Cool-Neutral. If they turn Wary, you're going to war in 5-10 turns. Unless Allied, you will not be able to convince another AI to help you. Preare to defend and, if things go bad, cough up a planet to settle peace.
- Research UT/AdvTrade/CntrldGrav. Acquire InterstellarBusiness if possible.
- Constructor-rush. Build your SB Influence modules. Keep on good terms with as many neighbors as possible while your sector influence builds. If at war, destabilize any enemy empire with planets in the target sector. Hopefully, a system will culture-flip before long. When it does, Congratualations! You've got a +40PQ planet...before your own improvements!
I'm currently pursuing this strategy on a Huge/Uncommon/Tight Cluster/5xIncred game. So far I've survived 'till Sept 2183. I have 3 planets, 3 SB's & 4 sectors under my control. But I'm alive!
   
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First, yes the AI does get a starting PQ ability of 30% (If I remember correctly)
In reference to Def Zep's post,
I wouldn't be so pessimistic about the maso. It has its weaknesses..As for the strategy of letting the AI colonize your nearby planets and then invading, I wouldn't do that. You should find the AI also gets a huge ground defense bonus. You're going to lose a lot of pop early in the game and that's very very bad since then you'll never be able to outproduce the AI. By the time your populations level out you'll be dead. The AI is kind of "dumb" in that it doesn't really use that PQ bonus though. It'll only colonize planets of 15+. But you can colonize planets down to PQ 13 and get them up to 15 fairly quickly. That's how you get to out-produce the AI eventually. And if you pick the +7 PQ ability you can colonize down to PQ 12. This is especially important on uncommon maps like yours. I'm playing a maso game right now (huge, uncommon, tight, 5 incredible AIs, same as yours) and in the initial grab the AIs only got 2-5 systems each, while I've got over 25. By 2190 I had first place in economy, research, and production.
As for the diplomacy, I don't know what you mean by it. You can trade for techs with the AI even 1-1. You just gotta remember two things: 1) Get diplomatic translators no matter what the cost and don't sell them to anyone (I'm often willing to put myself in debt for 20 turns just to get them first).
2) The AI values different techs differently, don't even try getting military techs from them (like battleship, dreadnaught, etc.) since you'll pay way too much. And the minors won't be able to provide you with much in terms of new techs past turn 50 or so (they're just a good place to sell your tradegoods).
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#20
by Citizen alexti - 6/2/2003 10:24:19 PM
I think tiny/rare is always winnable if you can land your initial colony ship on another planet. My strategy is to research heavily toward Universal translator, then toward Deflectors, then Battle Armor, Space Militarization, InterStellar Tactics. At the same time I establish contacts with everybody ASAP. If in the corner I may build a scout. By doing heavy accent on research I can trade my tech for other tech. In particular, I usually buy something of shields, basic environment and impulse drive and trade for other. I don't bother getting any trade/culture techs. I invest remainder of the spendings from research into constructor and cash it as a transport at the homeworld when I get impulse drive and start to build another one. Some of the spending excess goes into social, so that I build soil enh and habitat + maybe entertainment network. Transport immediately heads toward the closest race with one system. Survey ship serves as escort. I usually place it on stand-by, but not too close to the target system. As soon as I get to frigates, I buy whatever production is required to complete frigates,
switch to 100% military and start to build another transport and frigate. 2 frigates go to the target system, and the first transport times its arrival to the target in sync with frigates and I get another nice planet. (In some cases invasion fails and I have to send second transport). Next transport goes to the next closest race, by the time it arrives I have few more frigates and so on. Further on my fleet keep growing and I quickly conquer everybody. Optinally one may get alliance victory with some good races.
If I can only get one planet at the start it's hard, but possible, especially if there's a minor race nearby which can be conquered early with star fighters. But in general the strategy is the same. Key point is to concentrate on research in the beginning.
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I believe the AI maso bonuses are racial bonuses so once you conquer the planets, the planets lose these. So you get a PQ15 planet instead of PQ21 under the AI. Don't forget that the AI gets influence bonuses as well so I don't think it is easy to execute an early culture bomb.
IMO, the best gambit is still to rush frigates and win through superior tactical map moves.
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