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Tiny masochistic walkthrough v1.01 (patch 1.04).
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by Citizen Ellestar - 6/9/2003 12:36:51 AM
Tiny masochistic walkthrough v1.01 (patch 1.04).
Time to win: 1,5 hours
Starting conditions:
5 Incredible AI. Pure good - Torian, Acrean, Dreign. Pure Evil – Altarian, Yor. (Not really sure about that, i played only with 5 pure evil before, so it’s just a suggestion).
Tiny, Rare, Tight Clusters
+1 Speed (double transport speed), +2 Soldiering (for conquering planets), War Party (+50% HP), +30% Weapons
You need a total of 2 or 3 planets 14+ at the start (including your homeworld).
Check everyone respawns at the start. You need 2 Major Civs in adjacent sectors to rush them. Better to rush Dreign IMHO first. Or try to rush comp with 2 planets if it’s near you. Comp with 3 planets may get a battleaxe, so it's a matter of luck to rush it.
Game:
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Most important thing: keep morale 100 at all planets every turn before you’ll have ~8000 total population. Use propaganda as need (but it’s lest cost-efficient than taxes, so it’s good to use on only maybe up to 1/3 of the planets).
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“Turn 1”: Military 100%, Spending 100%, Taxes so morale is 100 at the planet. If you see 14+ planet near you, colonize it with second colony ship, fist moves to a biggest group of stars in the sector there are no majors. For survey ship, first priority is weapons (to get attack bonuses), second priority is to view all major (and minor too, but that’s not that important) planets – to choose undefended ones.
“Turn 3”: Adjust spending so colony ship still builds on next turn, but redirect some excess spending from production to research.
If you colonized all starting worlds, go “If you colonized all starting planets”. Else, go “Research to transports” for a while till you’ll colonize all starting planets.
“Research to transports”: Select building constructor at all planets (do this on your new planets too) – so you don’t build a colony ship etc. during research. First priority – research, second - ships. So set 100% spending to research, but if you see that tech will be completed in next turn, redirect some to second priority task (in this case – ships, that’s why you need to build constructors everywhere – you don’t need colony ships etc. – you need transports then you’ll get a tech). Tech order – Propulsion Theory, Cold Fusion, Impulse Drive.
“If you colonized all starting planets”: First priority – social (100% spending), second – research. Build Soil Enhancement and Entertainment Network. Redirect excess funds as above. You need to build buildings in the same time at all planets to minimize “wasting resources issue”. Then you completed these 2 buildings on all planets, go to plan “Research to transports”.
“Preparation to rush”: First priority – research, second - ships. Tech order – Weapons Theory, Phasers. Build transports on all planets where you have ~1000 population. Don’t forget that you need to rush as fast as possible, but you still need population for later warfare. So keep at least 500 pop on planets and move transports to a first victim – major civ (transports are slower than Star Fighters). 2 transports with 1000 pop is more than enough to win vs. first victim. I suggest to use like 800 population on both transports. After that, build Star Fighters everywhere (like 7? of them, they are going at the same target. Don’t forget to switch to transports again – 3-4 with 1000 population – 3 to second major target and 1 to minor civ. Then SF again.
“Rush”: Ok kill one major – that’s will be easy in most cases (if it have only one planet). Don’t forget about constructors etc. – it’s experience. Try to get exp. for Survey Ship first. Don’t forget about official battle simulator  Link to calculate probability of success. Second major may be tougher – it can get defender(s). Don’t forget that if you’ll be unsuccessful to wipe all defenses in one turn, comp buys defender etc. and you may restart (or load game, if you feel it’s fair). Rush one of the minors with lesser defense. If you conquered planets that build tradegoods/freighters – buy tradegood to exchange them (and Influence) later for key techs.
“Countdown to victory”: First priority – research, second – social (if any), third – ships (some transports or some SF to has not a less than 2 times slower military). If things are going smooth (no war), then tech order – Medical Theory, Basic Environment Control. Switch priority to, social, build Habitat Improvement. Tech order – Communication theory, Universal Translator, Diplomacy. Try to exchange Space Militarization (Defense Theory, Battle Armor, Deflectors, Space Militarization) and Energy Channeling (Defense Theory, Deflectors, Shields, Energy Channeling). Overwise try to trade some of the prerequisites. First check that civ has what techs (say, one has both techs, and one has only one). Tech order – InterStellar Tactics.
“Shields up, Weapons online!”
Now you have frigates and all galaxy are yours. You don’t need anything but frigates and transports anymore.
Military tips:
1) Comp defends really bad – it leaves planets undefended. So you can just declare war (give some other race declaration of war by you to this race) and wait near planet when enemy leaves orbit.
2) It’s even better if you have some starfighters – stack of ships is really strong in defence, and comp will lose 1 ship for 1 starfighter.
3) Comp defends transports, but it still makes errors and some transports may be less defended or undefended.
4) Make only synchronized attacks if you can! So you need to get all forces you need in right spots and wipe major in one turn.
5) If you are at war, and you can’t win on open field – this is not really important. Attack from behind – really you need to conquer plantes, not to destroy all AI fleets.
6) Don’t forget about diplomacy – you may pay for a war between comps (~45 bc for 100 turns). But then you need to finish last assault fast after you’ll start it, because you’ll lose trade routes to empires you conquer, and you’ll have high military upkeep for frigates plus these 45 bc/turn - you'll be in negative income.
7) After first rush, choose prey wisely. If someone starts a war (don't forget that coms may declare war to minors), this comp moves most of it's fleet to assault opponent.
Tables:
(This is for these player settings – 50% HP and 30% weapons, note that comps has different bonuses, so better to check it on battle simulator Link)
Human
Starfighter 15/7/1
Frigate 67/7/4
Frigate (with shipyard) 67/8/5
Enemy orbiting planet defends vs. human starfighter
Starfighter 16/6/1 - att CTW 68%, 6/15 HP remaining
Corvette 20/6/2 - def CTW 64.4%, 7/20 HP remaining, 2 ships to win
Defender 31/2/3 - def CTW 50.4%, 8/31 HP remaining, 2 ships to win
Battle Axe 52/5/7 - def CTW 100%, 45/52 HP remaining, 8 ships to win
Enemy orbiting planet defends vs. human frigate 67/7/4
Starfighter 16/6/1 - att CTW 100%, 60/67 HP remaining
Corvette 20/6/2 - att CTW 100%, 56/67 HP remaining
Defender 31/2/3 - att CTW 100%, 60/67 HP remaining
Battle Axe 52/5/7 - def CTW 89.4%, 18/52 HP remaining, 2 ships to win
Enemy orbiting planet defends vs. human frigate 67/8/5
Battle Axe 52/5/7 - att CTW 52.4%, 16/67 HP remaining
  
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Good walkthrough, Ellestar.
Just a point that your military tip #2 about starfighter fleet defense is probably a bug. Not too good for Galcivers to develop their military doctrine based on that.
         
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#3
by Citizen LDiCesare - 6/9/2003 4:31:58 AM
Eldin, starfighters are very useful on all sizes because they beef up your military rating like nothing, so you don't have to go to war. You can leave them safely behind so that whatever the losses of the war you always keep a big military rating.
As I stated elsewhere, I have a different opening in tiny/rare, otherwise it's very similar: 100% research immediately, for universal translator. I will rather get trade/diplo or research bonuses than soldiering. The goal is to use the survey ship to find the majors. It's too unreliable as a weapon on tiny maps. You exchange techs with them fast. The rest is about as you describe, except the ai tends to have battleships when I have frigates. That's not really a problem, since battleships tend to move out of their planet and fare very badly when attacking 11 stacked starfighters. Note that without fleet defense bug, a starfighter would only take out 3 or 4 starfighters in a month, which leaves anough time for the rest of the stack and the transport to take the home planet left almost defenseless by the battleship.
On rare, every planet is important, so make sure the majors don't overcome the minors. Do it yourself.
[Message Edited]
 
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I'm taking my comment back on Military Tip #2. Apparently, this is a feature in the game, not a bug.
See thread Link
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Since this thread came up again, I should state that the fleet defense bonus is confirmed as a bug. It's fixed in 1.09/GCX.
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Thanks for posting this guide. I will try it out on my saved Tiny/Aboundant. I really want to get a win playing against MASO.
   
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I have v1.20 now and still no wins on MASO / Tiny. Does anyone have any advice using the latest patches?
Thanks
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I don't remember which thread in this group gave the advice that I've been following, but it sure worked. The general idea is to play with no military, and to gain a military victory by cultural conquest.
Start by turning off culural conquest as a victory condition, since it scores less than a military victory. Choose Populists as your polictial party for the diplomatic and morale bonuses. Use your additional picks to choose additional diplomacy, influence, and trade or economic advantages.
In tiny you're not likely to initally succeed in a colony rush, I rarely manage to colonize anything outside my starting sector. I've been setting my spending on 100%, my research at ~50%, my social spending at ~30%, and military at 20%. Others have advised other spending ratios, I don't pretend that mine are best. Anyway, concentrate your research early on communications theory, universal translator, diplomacy, trade. Get to the next level of government as soon as you can. Scout out the AI's as quickly as you can, so that you can trade with them.
If you can establish trade routes early enough you can maintain your spending ratio at 100%. If you can't, don't go into debt, reduce your spending.
The AIs will out research you on all the military techs. Concentrate your research on the techs they don't. I like to ignore the military techs and go for medical/basic environment/improved environment. Trade with every AI as often as you can. Your diplomatic advantage is a great help here.
I've rarely been able to get to the early trade goods. I try to get the virtual reality modules, harmony crystals, and whatever else I can, but I usually end up trading for diplomatic translators, which are well worth trading for.
Don't build a military. Build freighters to trade with, and lots of constuctors. You'll lose the race for resources, so use your first constructors to build up your production.
Build all the social improvements that improve PQ, production, economics, and morale as a secondary condition (i.e. build Stadium for both the morale and and economic benefit, don't bother with pure morale improvements like multimedia center.)
Research as many diplomatic and influence techs as you can. Your objective is to get to cultural conquest. You want to build starbases built up with as much cultural influence as you can. Place these in sectors you already control, plus in sectors adjacent that are empty of star systems. Beware, if you build one of these in a sector owned by one of the AIs they won't take kindly to it. When you build enough of these your cultural influence will eventually flip the AI star systems to you. Keep expanding this way and you'll eventually flip everyone and win a military victory.
On the way you'll have to keep the AIs on your side. Watch out if any of them drop below neutral. Try to keep a significant tech in reserve to be able to give to an AI that drops below neutral. Organic Piecing is a good example of a tech that the AI's typically won't research but will be greatly valued as a gift.
Hope this helps. As I said, I'm not the expert here, but this kind of advice has helped me beat maso/tiny and small. I haven't tried maso/large or larger. I suspect that the larger galaxy sizes are harder to win on military conquest, even with cultural flipping counted as a military win. I see many others winning on those large sizes with alliance victories. I think they're doing the same basic strategy but forming alliances instead of cultural flipping. Good luck. 
 
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| this kind of advice has helped me beat maso/tiny |
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It worked, I just posted my first win MASO/Tiny/Rare. Was fairly easy actually but long. I never had a military and only had to give in to 2 different demands for money.
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One thing I forgot, but you probably already know it - park a constructor next to the AI's resources. When they go to war (and you can try bribing them to attack each other) and destroy the starbase on that resource, you can grab it from them.
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| park a constructor next to the AI's resources |
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I live by that moto.
I actually go one step further and park a ship beside the starbase and give the ship to the that AI's ememy. 9 times out of 10 the first move the new ship owner does is destroy the starbase.
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#4 by Veteran Black_Shade - 5/28/2004 3:10:00 PM
as requested, here is my post from the jedi comm. thread:
NewfyScotion-
What i do is i make sure that planet setting is on rare (the less planets there are, the easier the game is). Then, i just CTRL+N until i get 2-3 planets. Set your spending to 100%, taxes to 50%, then research 50-60%, military 20-30%, social 20%. Here is my usual research path for the start:
Comm THeory--> Universal Trans---> Med Theory---> Basic Enviro Ctrl---> Nano Electronics---> Nano Frequency Electronics---> Indus theory----> Intersteller Refining. These are all techs the AI tend to avoid, so you can do some nice trading early on to get yourself a tech lead.
If your on tiny, make sure your planets are all in the same sector, then pump out contructors. Build 2 fully upgraded starbases where your planets are, to help boost production (i usually build up to phase III factory, then start next starbase and get that one fully decked out before going back to finish upgrading the first one). Just keep zooming through the tech tree and trading with AIs to keep in good standing with them (the AI usually avoids the green/yellow tech path, along with a good portion of the industrial line, so focus on these and just swap the AI for their military and defensive techs).
Now you can decide how you want to win the game. If your feeling like a alliance victory or something of that nature, just wait tell the year 2190 and then get all the AIs to ally with you (what i do is get them all to friendly a couple of turns before this happens). To do this simply gift them tech (LOTS of tech), or send a decent amount of trade ships their way. If your feeling like going for military victory, once you trade for battleship tech off the AIs, start building combat transports. Build far more than the current pop of the planet can support- just keep them in orbit until they are ready to use. Once you reach dreadnaught tech, then start pumping out offensive ships. You dont necessarily have to build dreads- i usually use simple battle cruisers and then alpha strike all the AIs at the same time. If any planet has a big gun on it- like a battleship- i simply trade the AI for it and use it against their own planet.
Oh, for social improvements i build the following on all my planets (and in this order too):
Soil Enchancement
Habitat Improvement
Entertainment Center
Fusion Plant
Manufactoring Center
Multimedia Center
Anti Matter PP
Transporters (swap in harmony generators here if you dont have teleporters researched yet, but i always try to make sure that i do)
Banking Center
Research Lab
Economic Exchange
Stock Market
Stadium
***** On Tiny or on your main military worlds (other map sizes) build the following as well:
Shipyard
Adv Quality Ctrl
Starship Foundry
For my party pick (yeah, im going backwards, im unorganized like that), i always pick the populists because of the diplomacy bonus, or the party that i had Dream Warrior make me (+50% luck, +20 Diplo, and some other bonus that i forgot). For my point distribution i do: +*50-60% diplomacy, +1 speed, *+25% luck. THe * is for dropping from 60 diplo to 50 to grab the luck bonus, you can drop the luck bonus without any negative side effect and take the full 60% diplo bonus. Anyways.... that should be a basic walk through of a maso game. Just remember to ALWAYs trade with the AI- i check at least once every 2-3 turns to see if they have any new techs, usually every turn in the early goings. Keeping a tech lead or grabbing a tech before the AI has a chance to trade it around is crucial to winning maso games (which is also why you have the diplo picks, to make this easier). On my spending bars, i personally do 20/20/60 (m/s/r), and never change it at all during my games. It seems to be the balance that i find most useful, but its all about your own play style. As to the spending limit and tax rate, i try to keep my taxes so that my aproval rating never drops below 85%, early game it is not terribly important. Once i have a few trade routes set up, i drop the taxes down until i have 100% rating, and eventually it ends up at 0. Initially, losing money doesnt matter. However, you should never drop your funds below 0 credits. Once you get to democracy it is crucial that you keep a positive cash flow, even if it means setting your spending bar down.
PS: its not edited so its still unorganized
edit: i totally forgot its on tiny (oops) so you can still go for the good old culture flip easily. Just turn off cultural conquest/alliance Victory/tech victory and you will get more points, as well as be able to flip planets without a culture victory. Just build pump up the influence mods on your home starbases, then build a starbase in each vacant sector (if you have the funds) and upgrade the influence. If the AI you are trying to flip is across the map, you might want to do 2 starbases in sectors adjacent to their planet. Again, make sure the sectors are unoccupied, as building influence mods will cause the AI to demand the starbase and declare war.
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Something that I noticed when playing and winning my first MASO, if you control a resource in a sector that is occupied by an AI they do not complain if you build culture mods on it.
At least they don't if you are friends with them. I never tried it when I wasn't friends.
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| if you control a resource in a sector that is occupied by an AI they do not complain if you build culture mods on it. |
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Nice hint, NewfyScotian!
I've played my first few tiny maso games on AP 1.49 with this strategy, and found it still works but is harder. The extra two alien races are just 2 more you have to bribe, and the AI's research strategy has changed somewhat so that you can no longer rely on them not researching certain techs (leaving you free to get them and trade them). For example in my first tiny/maso AP game I found that the Torians had researched basic environmental control, which is one tech that I'm used to getting to first and profitably trading to all the AIs.
If anyone reading this likes playing this no-military, high-diplomacy kind of game, check out the "Sneaky Diplomats Party" mod by Peace Phoenix. It works on both GC1.2 and AP, and is "Stardock Certified". I highly recommend it 
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| At least they don't if you are friends with them. I never tried it when I wasn't friends. |
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They'll ask you for it at relations below 'Friendly' I think. At least it happens to me.
 
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| At least they don't if you are friends with them. I never tried it when I wasn't friends. |
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They'll ask you for it at relations below 'Friendly' I think. At least it happens to me. |
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I have played 4 games now and still haven't seen them ask for it. But, you might be right I try to keep my relations at lest warm/friendly/close.
[Message Edited]
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| If anyone reading this likes playing this no-military, high-diplomacy kind of game, check out the "Sneaky Diplomats Party" mod by Peace Phoenix. It works on both GC1.2 and AP, and is "Stardock Certified". I highly recommend it |
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I have designed this party especially for this kind of games. And the major AI won't take it due to negative bonuses used. So you will have a real edge on diplomacy ("if you tell them that those aren't the droids they are looking for ...").
Very useful to stay out of war for a small bribe, or to get easily near all techs the AI have.
    
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Even with the diplomatic power of the Sneaky Diplomats and Diplomatic Translators, the AI's tend to demand an exhorbitant number of techs if you ask for a significant military tech like Battleship, Dreadnaught, or Avatar. I haven't tried offering them money, does that work any better? I've always been able to get those techs through trade eventually, since the AI's will offer them much more cheaply when they initiate the trade.
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I tend to reject trades they offern and grab the ones I want. I really only research the green, yellow, and orange tech early. I'll trade for propulsio as much as possible. Later, I can grab the purple and organge techs I need to get terror stars.
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| Even with the diplomatic power of the Sneaky Diplomats and Diplomatic Translators, the AI's tend to demand an exhorbitant number of techs if you ask for a significant military tech like Battleship, Dreadnaught, or Avatar. |
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That is right. They demand lots of tech for theses ones. But what must you give IF your diplomacy bonus was lower? 
Since all major AI will research these tech, I am sometimes able to trade it from a major AI that is behind me in tech (and alos behind the others). Exchange lots of tech for battleships allows this AI to be in better shape with other major AI. I even give Battleships to major and minor AI that haven't it: it is always better to have AI with equivalent tech fighting each other. They fight longer. And with proper diplomatic operations, you can be the only trading partner: all AI will trade with you, and only with you. I was even able to incite AI to fight a stronger one ("their military is too strong"). But I need to put lots of tech in the exchange.
| I haven't tried offering them money, does that work any better? |
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Perhaps. But make deal on 100 turns, it is better for your treasury
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