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Maso Strategies
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#200
by Citizen CypherPax - 11/4/2003 1:38:30 PM
Hermann - Congrats on the first maso win!
Hmmm.. I'm becoming acustomed to Maso now. I thought I'd post my stategy since it is a bit different from what has been discussed. It took me a little while to get the hang of it, but now I'm past needing the 1 IP bug to win at all. Trade and the occassional tech gift seems to enable me to keep relations in the Neutral to Warm range until it is too late to matter. I'm going to try a Large game next so hopefully I'm not getting too cocky. (My Medium was with 'Common' planets - so I started with a pretty big planet disadvantage.)
My latest strategy has been to control all the resources. Once I have 80% of the resources, I seem to have 'won' (even before they are built up). Once they are built up, I have typically have the same or more bonuses than the AI and I can toy with them in the same manner I liked to do on 'Tough' or 'Painful.' (With the exception of extoring money...)
At the lower difficulties, I just tended to grab whatever resources were close rather than actively searching the map and parking constructors in anticipation of a war. The more aggresive AI in 1.11 seems to make the strategy more effective, since I don't actively have to encourage wars anymore -- it seems like the AI doesn't like ANYONE anymore. (I now seem to see Altarian / Torian wars frequently and don't often see a AI alliance.)
I've changed stategies a little to account for the more aggresive AI. Rather than trying to keep the AIs balanced. I actively work to weaken a bordering AI. The other AIs seem to sense blood in the water... and sent their navies, sans transports (which I've already built). Only rarely do I have to bother bribing the AIs to go to war, since they are more than happy to pick on a weakling without encouragement.
This generally gets me into wars (with the dying major), but they are over quickly. For some reason, I can keep close militarily whenever I choose. (Typically, there is a period between Frigates (sometimes Death knight) and Avatars where I choose to lag, because my economy, trade, and influence make me an unattactive enough target that I don't worry about it. I don't know if I've changed something about my play, or the more aggresive AIs mean less ships for each major.
So far, the minors expanding has been a non-issue. They are a little more apt to grab a second system. In my opinion, this is to my advantage as I will take them out before the AI will get around to it.
I do trade for ships rather than building many of them, but that's because I always seem to have a huge tech lead (almost from the beginning) since early on I trade aggressively and later in the game I control the tech resources and have taken over a good number of systems. I don't bother with tech picks though. (BTW - trading for transports of an undefended system seems to have been stopped in 1.11, the AI actually tells you that it doesn't think the trade is a good idea for that reason - kudos to Stardock.)
For a while, I really like PQ +5% as a starting pick, but I'm back to Speed +1 as more useful. Without the PQ pick, I still settle PQ 14s and the occassional PQ 13. After the Terraformer (which is one of the ones I'll buy), I'll settle the PQ 12s and up to help with culture bombing.
I've read a lot about Terror Stars, but I haven't really needed them. By the time I'm ready to culture bomb, I could build multiple cultural starbases in a AI's sector without them complaining (in fact, I can generally park warships next to their capital without a noise at that point).
Hope this is interesting,
Cypher
          
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Congrats to Hermann for winning on maso and thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Thanks for sharing this Cypher. I find it interesting.
| By the time I'm ready to culture bomb, I could build multiple cultural starbases in a AI's sector without them complaining |
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How do you do that? Is it because you are allied or because you have such a strong military rating or something else?
[Message Edited]
     
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Thanks, Cypher (for the post and for the congrats). It's good to see there are multiple strategies that work even at Maso level...and good that you can combine or change strategies. In some games (Deity level of Civ2, IIRC) you have multiple routes to victory, but once you commit to one it might be suicidal to try to switch, or to fail to commit *everything* to the chosen path. Hmm...maybe I like the Gray Side of the Force (or rather, the Zebra Side!) -- HtL
 
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#203
by Citizen CypherPax - 11/4/2003 5:07:38 PM
Ric,
I think the biggest difference between my strategy and others is that I'm unafraid of fighting an AI. I'll take one on early in the game if there's two other AIs also at war with them. The AI is so bad at attacking, that even with a military disadvantage it is not too hard to out manuveur them (though I had a LOT of practice at the lower difficulties - I can look at a map and pretty much tell you how the AI will respond to an attack.) For example, if the AI is at war with a major that is closer to it's terriority you're unlikely to ever see a transport... assuming you have ANY ship (even a freighter) on each system you own.
I only ever culture bombing one or two majors because I've invaded the rest. I don't believe in alliances unless I'm clearly going to lose without one... I've also never culture bombed an ally.
I'll have taken a large number of planets using my gang up on the weakest major strategy -- and conquer any remaining minors before starting the culture bombing. By the time I take out the majors and minors, they've build capitals and hyperion centers and my production is really high (also I've inherited a large number of phantom trade routes from taking systems.)
Combine a planet advantage with nearly every maxed out resource, and I'm typically ahead at that point in the game in everything except perhaps military / manufactoring. But I'm always close behind there and I'm WAY ahead in Tech, Economy, and Influence. At that point, they don't bother threatening me at all.
I suspect that influence has a BIG impact on relations / what the AI will put up with. I always demand IP on tech trades and I constantly trade techs so I end up with a massive advantage there. (A major can have an influence resource and a similiar number of planets and I'll still lead in influence.)
In terms of military, I trade tech for capital ships. Dreadnought seem expecially cheap in the later game - so my military rating is respectable - in fact, due to owning the military resources I can take out Avatars and Rangers with by Dreads if I need to. If I have to, I'll lease an Overlord or Excalibur from Mitrosoft knowing that the game won't last long enough for it to hurt me.
The two times this has started to backfire, I've sued for peace by 'giving' the major a planet in the heart of my empire knowing full well that I'd culture flip it within 6 months.
I'm curious to see if anyone else uses a similiar aggresive strategy. I also tend to play smaller maps (though on common or abundant) so there is more of a tactical element to my games. Larger maps are harder for me, because while I know where the AI is sending ships I can't always react in time to exploit this knowledge.
-Cypher
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#204
by Citizen LDiCesare - 11/5/2003 4:07:58 AM
I just won a tech victory (yes, I know) by keeping mostly alone. I had a big bunch of the galaxy all to myself to start with (about one quarter) with a mighty zero resources in that quarter of the galaxy. Since everyone was far from me, except the Carinoids, I couldn't trade much initially (I was too busy sending colony ships to the north in fear someone else would be there to make contact). Then, my survey ship teleported in the middle of the ai's and made contact with all the majors in 2 turns. They sent freighters to me, I did it too and everyone was happy. I had so much trade from everyone that I always ran a surplus even at 100% spending and 100% morale until late in the game when I started building expensive things like galactic research centers.
The evil ai's fought everyone while the Altarians and Torians attacked weeny cornered Arceans. This resulted in every ai busy with anothe ai, so I could trade with them and increase my relationships steadily with all those who had enough firepower to be a threat.
Then I started researching for a tech victory, which is the interesting part.
The ai was only researching military techs. This means I could stroll researching +research techs and all the way to final frontier without competition. During that time, Torians were busy looking for new ships while being allied with everyone who survived (the Altarians and myself).
So, if anyone is interested in a tech victory (worth about 2/5th of an alliance victory itself worht a half of a military victory), it should be pretty easy to do because the ai totally forgoes that route (at least Torians and Altarians) in favor of military techs. The key is not to research battleships or any military tech from there on, but focus on science. You can even get dreadnoughts from an ai-initiated trade.
  
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This thread is undoubtably the longest Strat Forum thread, started a good 4 months back. I believe many aspiring Masochists have benefited from the good advice here.
Thanks to everyone who have posted here for your contributions.
 
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#212
by Citizen Sirian - 11/14/2003 1:56:57 AM
Don't need speed bonuses on Large. I don't usually take them on Huge, either. Gigantic is another story. I actually like +2 speed there, even though it eats 8 picks.
Believe it or not, I actually found Abundant Gigantic EASIER than lower habitability. Why? I could spam the colony ships with impunity. Always somewhere to send em. With lower habitability, you have to scout more, or else you will badly misjudge the number of colony ships to build, over or under, both are bad. And the AI's of course cheat, knowing which stars to which to beeline, and usually sending several colony ships there, which can then use that as a launch pad to yet more systems they couldn't reach until then. The AI can chain systems like this and gain a HUGE advantage over the player trying to do the same thing without any reloading. The +2 speed kind of erases that and puts the player back on equal footing. I played one gigantic without the speed boost and it was painful!
- Sirian
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#213
by Citizen CypherPax - 11/24/2003 10:46:49 AM
Just wanted to bump this thread. I actually haven't noticed any differences in the AI in 1.12. I have noticed more CTDs though...
I am finding maxing pop is incredibly useful, with this strategy there are three things I'll try to control:
1. Diplo translaters
2. Aphro
3. Galactic Stock Exchange
I will always trade for the other TGs (particularly Grav Accelerators), but I don't find them as critical to success. I can also live without the Galactic Stock Exchange, but the early to mid-game bonus seems to make the entire game MUCH easier.
Interestingly enough, time seems to be a scoring factor again -- in my last two games I score really high even though the games were over due to a legitmate military conquest in the 80s. In the tiny game, I had just made Star Federation and in the second game I hadn't even gotten to Dreadnaughts -- both of which are fairly earlier in the tech tree for me to end a game.
I have also almost completely stopped researching military and propulsion techs. I will occassionally research phasers for an early rush, otherwise I count on getting all the red/blue techs from trade. (Though occassionally I'll need to research battleships (for combat transports) or dreadnought for AMMS -- though by the time I NEED to do it its only 2-4 turns to complete the research.
As a player with an aggressive style of play, I haven't noticed the AI defending better. In fact, the expansion of the minors seems to have made the majors weaker in two important respects:
1. Majors grab less systems making them more vulnerable to attack and minimizing their incredible bonuses.
2. Minors are much more likely to survive, meaning I have an game long alternative for trade and military tech - and from the Alexians - Cash.
Thoughts,
Cypher
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